Western Railroad Discussion > I-5 Corridor Intermodal Service Question

What intermodal service is in place between the PNW-LA I-5 corridor now?

Thanks

Jim wilson

UP Z-LCTM with a setout in Portland and maybe Lathrop set out and pick up.

UP I-SEBR (Seattle to Brooklyn) which gets turned into the Z-BRLC with some traffic turning east onto Z-BRG2. This used to be I/Z-SELC
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/24 08:32 by okcrr.

okcrr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UP Z-LCTM with a setout in Portland and maybe
> Lathrop set out and pick up.
>
> UP I-SEBR (Seattle to Brooklyn) which gets turned
> into the Z-BRLC with some traffic turning east
> onto Z-BRG2. This used to be I/Z-SELC
>  

Please give us the full names of the symbols if you can.

Thanks.

texchief1

Z-LCTM is the Los Angeles Transportation Center to Tacoma South Intermodal Terminal Z-train.
I-SEBR would be a Seattle to Brooklyn Yard (Portland area) intermodal. I didn't recognize this symbol in UP's lineup from the Christmas/New Years holiday time frame. There was, however, a Seattle to Barnes Yard train (I-SEBA) listed.
Z-BRLC would be a Brooklyn to Los Angeles Transportation Center Z-train. Did they bring this symbol back? Around the first of the year they were running the I-SEBA and I-SELC, but I didn't see the Z-BRLC listed. The Brooklyn trailers were always a morning favorite of mine to catch on Tehachapi back in the day.
Z-BRG2 is the Brooklyn to Global 2 (Chicago) Z-train.

texchief1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> okcrr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > UP Z-LCTM with a setout in Portland and maybe
> > Lathrop set out and pick up.
> >
> > UP I-SEBR (Seattle to Brooklyn) which gets
> turned
> > into the Z-BRLC with some traffic turning east
> > onto Z-BRG2. This used to be I/Z-SELC
> >  
>
> Please give us the full names of the symbols if
> you can.
>
> Thanks.
>
> texchief1

It's a far cry from what UP had just within a few years and certainly not as much as SP had back in the day.  SP had the Brooklyn trailers, also a Swift roadrailer train and an occasional northbound they called LACFF that was a contract train for Consolidated Freightways.  They also had some "T" stack trains.  The main SP Brooklyns were last called LAPTX and PTLAX if memory serves and were almost all trailers.   UP's current edition has lost most of the trailers and rarely exceeds 100 platforms and is continually assaulted by thieves between LA and Sacramento.    

okcrr Wrote:
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> UP Z-LCTM with a setout in Portland and maybe
> Lathrop set out and pick up.

ZLCTM (and the previous symbom ZLCBR) almost always ran right through Lathrop. Separate and later train (ZLCLT or demoted? equivalent) took care of the Lathrop traffic.

ZBRLC used to regularly setout at Lathrop (often a "quick" rearend setout) but that train was a slow Z already, and got demoted to IBRLC (or IBRLA, or whatever), with an occasional revival during holiday season.

A little off topic, but there used to be a ZLTLC, which got demoted in the middle of the PSR era and run as an I train now - later departure, and slower running.

Hope someone with recent information (2024) can pitch in. Today's UP make constant changes now so even 2023 info can be obsolete.
 

Th present northbound through Dunsmuir is a pretty serious train, not sure where they pick up more cars, heard it was Lathrop. When it goes through Dunsmuir it's usually running 2x2 or 3x2, pretty good sized train. The two DPU's at run 8 are impressive.

The southbound I-train appears to be the largest on the district, suspect around 8,000 ft which is impressive going around Cantara Loop. Appears to be empties, usually three locomotives on the point, two this morning. The other day they had five on the point with only two working, they had to set out a good cut of cars at Grass Lake. A single locomotive went up and grabbed them, put it back together in the yard, still only two working though. Most southbounds are loads so the empty I-train appears to be longer.

+ agree about the constant change, they have been trying 1x1 on empties, 3x2 or 3x0 on the afternoon Z, crew changes in the Canyon to get a crew ready for tomorrow's call time, dead-heading crews every which way. Not sure whassup at Klamath Falls, seems like the NB inbound crews do all the work in the yard, Often the crews are flipped back to Dunsmuir, not always, just often.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/24 14:31 by TCnR.

In SP days the top hotshot was the PTLAT and operated on The Coast Line.   Another was the toilet paper express the CZLAT, for Crown Zelerback to Los Angeles Trailers, also down the Coast.

Correction to earlier post, the last SP I-5 hotshots were symboled LAPCX and PTPCX, which was non-standard SP symbol terminology.  PCX stood for "Pacific Coast Express".   The only other hotshot not to use origin/destination symbols to my knowlege were the Blue Streaks, BSMFF and MBSMF.  

This is my understanding of the symbols of the intermodals from someone who railfans the southern end in LA. 

Northbound:
ZLCLT: Leaves late morning from LA, goes up the Metrolink saugus line north
ZLCTM: Leaves past midnight from LA, also the Metrolink line
 
Southbound:
ILTLB: (Might be a Z?) Uses the Palmdale cutoff pretty much all the time, has setouts at East yard in LA. I think it has autoracks sometimes too
ISELC: Uses the Metrolink Saugus line sometimes, I think train length and time it gets to Palmdale determine whether Metrolink accepts them, otherwise takes the Palmdale cutoff

Pic is an ISELC from 2022 in Soledad canyon

---

SELC isn't running anymore, it's SEBR and gets built into some kind of BRLC train at Brooklyn yard.

memphisfreight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Correction to earlier post, the last SP I-5
> hotshots were symboled LAPCX and PTPCX, which was
> non-standard SP symbol terminology.  PCX stood
> for "Pacific Coast Express".   The only other
> hotshot not to use origin/destination symbols to
> my knowlege were the Blue Streaks, BSMFF and
> MBSMF.  

The regular SP intermodal trains on the I-5 corridor in the 90's were the LABRF and PTLAF trains in addition to the LAPCX and PTPCX trains. There were also the PTOAT and the OAPTF trains, but those were a mix of intermodal and carload traffic. For a brief while, SP also ran an RVPTF, mostly carload and empties for the PNW, but also had some intermodal and UPS out of Roseville.

For decades SP and UP ran southbound intermodal out of Brooklyn around 6-7PM, through Eugene 9-10PM.
A few years ago departure time was moved 12 hours. The SB would sit in Eugene, either on main or yard track, for fueling and crew change 1 - 6+ hours!.
Now it's on a different schedule (LOL).

What is Brooklyn departure time now?

During the peak holiday season the I-SEBR was replaced with the old post UP/SP Merger symbol Z-SELC,with a seperate I-ISEBR a coulpe times a week. 
Drew-Centralia, WA MP 54 BNSF Seattle Sub

Drew Mitchem
Centralia, WA

Ticeska Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> memphisfreight Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Correction to earlier post, the last SP I-5
> > hotshots were symboled LAPCX and PTPCX, which
> was
> > non-standard SP symbol terminology.  PCX stood
> > for "Pacific Coast Express".   The only other
> > hotshot not to use origin/destination symbols
> to
> > my knowlege were the Blue Streaks, BSMFF and
> > MBSMF.  
>
> The regular SP intermodal trains on the I-5
> corridor in the 90's were the LABRF and PTLAF
> trains in addition to the LAPCX and PTPCX trains.
> There were also the PTOAT and the OAPTF trains,
> but those were a mix of intermodal and carload
> traffic. For a brief while, SP also ran an RVPTF,
> mostly carload and empties for the PNW, but also
> had some intermodal and UPS out of Roseville.

 I think the F trains carried the UPS hot stuff and the PCX trains were new business taken off the highway, like May, Interstate, Schneider and Hunt etc.  I figured UP would increase that, oh well. 

The 2 "PCX" trains were operated mainly for May trucking and were very hot. They usually had had high horsepower to ton ratios and you usually could make full track speed going up the hill out of Oakridge. Some of my best trips ever were on the PCX trains. 

The PTLAF and LABRF were also solid intermodal although the PTLAF tended to not be very hot and you'd often find yourself in the hole for other trains. The LABRF tended to also be very hot and would hold the mainline everywhere.

The PTOAT and OAPTT trains, as previously mentioned, were usually loaded down with manifest tonnage. The PTOAT would often have a helper get called for it and the train would be heavy enough the helper would be a 4 or 5 unit set cut-in. The OAPTT towards the end had almost no intermodal on it but was usually very heavy and often had crappy power that Oakland wanted to get rid of. It would often draw 4-axle power coming north, something that was not wanted up here.

Then for a while they ran a Swift Road-Railer train, although off the top of my head I cannot remember the train ID's for it. It was not a particularly expedited train and you'd often find yourself in the hole for other trains.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/24 07:58 by Railbaron.

All the responses so far have been answers regarding UP or SP services in the lane. Believe it or not, BNSF actually provides service in this lane at the moment. B PTLLAC4 offers a once per week outlet at Portland departing Monday evening. This “service” however, instead of utilizing BNSF’s “US97 Corridor” adjacent to UP’s “I5 Corridor”, takes a 5.5+ day journey of over 3,000-miles to reach LA… via Wendover, WY. This is the schedule at the moment…. Over the years it has occasionally been on the Oregon Trunk and BNSF trackage rights on the UP I5 Corridor. It’s patronized to reposition empty trailers and containers between Portland & LA. So, at the moment it is a “service” in the I5 Corridor even though it routes entirely away from the I5.

Posted from iPhone

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Th present northbound through Dunsmuir is a pretty
> serious train, not sure where they pick up more
> cars, heard it was Lathrop. When it goes through
> Dunsmuir it's usually running 2x2 or 3x2, pretty
> good sized train. The two DPU's at run 8 are
> impressive.

Forgot to mention that in the ZLCBR days, there were occasional ZLCBRBs (B section), running Alhambra Sub --> Palmdale Cutoff via Cajon to avoid the daytime Metrolinks on the ex-SP Saugus Line. B section almost always did work at Lathrop. TO search says there was a C section, too, but I never had a chance to document that.

(ZLCBRB I caught in 2019 at Cajon ran 2x2.)

ZLCTM most of the year has 4 engines, no DPUs, or 2x2s. They probably add the 5th during peak holiday season. That's before reaching Lathrop, whether they do work there or not. Too bad hotbox detectors don't announce axle counts regularly anymore. ZLCBRs always had low-to-mid 200s axle counts, and so we'd know if ZLCTMs are longer in comparison today.
 

midwest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All the responses so far have been answers
> regarding UP or SP services in the lane. Believe
> it or not, BNSF actually provides service in this
> lane at the moment. B PTLLAC4 offers a once per
> week outlet at Portland departing Monday evening.
> This “service” however, instead of utilizing
> BNSF’s “US97 Corridor” adjacent to UP’s
> “I5 Corridor”, takes a 5.5+ day journey of
> over 3,000-miles to reach LA… via Wendover, WY.
> This is the schedule at the moment…. Over the
> years it has occasionally been on the Oregon Trunk
> and BNSF trackage rights on the UP I5 Corridor.
> It’s patronized to reposition empty trailers and
> containers between Portland & LA. So, at the
> moment it is a “service” in the I5 Corridor
> even though it routes entirely away from the I5.
>
> Posted from iPhone

a bit of a stretch to call an empty repositioning train a "service", the only "customer" is their partner JB hunt to move an imbalance of containers. Sure it's a regular train but it's not exactly for sale as a service to anyone except Hunt and the occasional FedEx trailers it hauls. 

Not a service? What would these trucking companies do if this empty repo service wasn’t available? Surely BNSF provides this service to support outbound intermodal equipment needs from their Los Angeles and San Bernardino ramps.