Western Railroad Discussion > A Westerner Out East- A Bit More Buffalo

Some "Cutting Room Floor" stuff from Buffalo.
SR

Photo 1.  The drone returning home at Buffalo Central.
Photo 2.  An overview of some of the elevators on the Buffalo River.
Photo 3,  A closer look at the derelict boat in Photo 2.  Sorry- I've no idea as to it's back story.

Photo 4.  The Cargill-S Elevator.
Photo 5.  Plow & Spreader
Photo 6.  Buffalo Southern ALCo (maybe?) deadline.

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Wonderful images of 'The Rust Belt' - Buffalo, New York, has seen better days.  Appreciate your finds along the lake shore.  Buffalo Southern sure had a variety of locomotives.

One of the biggest issues in New York State is that unlike some states, they tax railroad improvements and property, at the LOCAL level.  That's resulted in a couple of regional phenomenons.

First, if you're a shortline, you ended up with your friendly neighborhood IDA, county, or somebody (ANYBODY) taking control of your right-of-way just to avoid taxes.

Second, if you're a Class 1, you get rid of EVERYTHING possible to avoid taxes.  Track, route, structures, etc.   Strip it clean.   So a lot of what you see in NY that looks like scorched earth is really the result of tax policy.
In Pennsylvania, railroads are regarded as public utilities, like power lines, and ROW's and buildings aren't taxed.   A lot more survived.   Which is one of the reasons there are so many shortlines, tourist railroads, station museums, etc.   They didn't get taxed out of existence.

Third, railroads now make a negotiated deal with the entire state to lower assessed valuation, and then decide what the localities get, which means it's a F'n mess at the property records level, because it's an alternative reality by all parties.  That's sort of stopped the bleeding but it also left one terrible mess at the local record level - you can't link what the railroad is paying back to any given parcel.  Lord only knows I've tried... I tried to do a route line in Buffalo and NOBODY, but nobody, could tell me how much tax they were paying.

When I did railroad property in NY I was astounded how bad the local records were, and how careless some of railroads were on reviewing them.   There were properties that hadn't existed for years still in there, and assessed valuations on structures that had been gone for 50 years.   Nobody left in the railroad to challenge it, just pay the bill and move on.  And complain.   And lobby at the state level.  

Some Googling finds the C415 is Ex-BRAN 423/CRIP 423.

https://railroadfan.com/wiki/index.php/Buffalo_Southern_Railroad

The SS Columbia webpage, history, photos and links to donations:

https://www.sscolumbia.org/about



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/24 11:33 by TCnR.

Remarkable photos. You can just about imagine how busy Buffalo was before the St Lawrence Seaway opened. Just a mile or two south of the elevators was the "Lackawanna" steel works. Level ground now.
 

I think the plow is ex DL&W ?

Dunno. The reporting marks are DL.
SR

BoilingMan Wrote:
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> Dunno. The reporting marks are DL.
> SR

That be the Delaware-Lackawanna. Think ALCO's and Scranton Pa among other nice tid bits.  Didn't know they had anything in the Buffalo Area tho. Thought they were all more east and in Pa.  Ben

ns2557 Wrote:
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> BoilingMan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dunno. The reporting marks are DL.
> > SR
>
> That be the Delaware-Lackawanna. Think ALCO's and
> Scranton Pa among other nice tid bits.  Didn't
> know they had anything in the Buffalo Area tho.
> Thought they were all more east and in Pa.  Ben

Yes, that was my first thought too. But Buffalo seemed a bit off line for MoW equipment, so I decided not to report it as in fact theirs. Maybe Buffalo Southern or someone acquired them from Scranton?
SR

The plow seems to track to DL&W 95912.
Built by Russell  in 1948 - Ridgway, PA

to EL 95912
CR 64566 then to CSX ?  then to ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/24 12:24 by train1275.

Some years back on the SP a bill from a local fire department was forwarded to me for approval & payment. Seems they had sent a fire truck and emergency crew to a crossing accident scene, where they did nothing but look around since there were no injuries, fire or chemical concerns. I had the pleasure of responding back on company stationery that since the SP had not requested their appeaarance plus they did nothing there, we would not be paying their bill. 

Too often large businesses - and railroads - are wrongly billed for goods & services never provided. Happens to ordinary folks too, 

randgust Wrote:

> ....When I did railroad property in NY I was astounded
> how bad the local records were, and how careless
> some of railroads were on reviewing them. 
>  There were properties that hadn't existed for
> years still in there, and assessed valuations on
> structures that had been gone for 50 years. 
>  Nobody left in the railroad to challenge it,
> just pay the bill and move on.  And complain. 
>  And lobby at the state level.  

Hey, railroads do it too.

One of my very first railroad experiences professionally was getting 'tasked' with untangling a huge demurrage bill from Conrail to my employer, at that time, a company that manufactured radiators, had a designated leased fleet of 60' auto parts boxes, and shipped about 4 cars a day outbound to Detroit.   The shipping manager was a greenhorn, I was in IT, not shipping, but I did at least understand what 'demurrage' was!   I remember it being around $50K, not a small number, he was reasonably freaked out..... and it went on for pages and pages.  I got the job because I had train pictures up in my office....

But I had a secret weapon, a recent copy of the Official Railway Equipment register.  When it was printed.

I started looking up car numbers on the billing list....WTF.   50' Mill gondolas, all of them.   Not our boxcar fleet at all.   Helped write the 'NOT OUR CARS' letter, and from that point on, I was 'the train guy' in the company.... and so it started.

Years ago, when I was a controller for a manufacturing company in New Haven, Indiana, next to the former NKP mainline, I received a bill from NS. It said we owed rent since part of the building we leased was on NS property. Our landlord was not much help as was a previous tenant. It was the first and last bill we ever received. We never heard from them again.

Victor Baird

Wrlcome to the northeast rust belt.

I was wondering why Buffalo had all those old silos, silent and empty.  I get it now--the St. Lawrence Seaway changed everything.

Anyone know how busy that port was in its heyday, and where most shipments went / came from?

Buffalo was/is the western port of the Eire Canal. As it pre-dated the railroads there was much shipping by barge, and the railroads followed suit building to the port.

A win the lottery, bucket list trip for me is to rent a house boat and spend a summer on the canal from end to end. The Canal has always kinda intrigued me, and I do want to explore it someday. Gotta keep buying those tickets! lol.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

Well Steve,
You certainly stirred up a bunch of folks ringing in on the mess that caused Conrail, blah, blah, ...
The Saint Lawrence Seaway undermined an enormous U.S economy by creating a direct salt water shipping unavailable before. Somewhat akin of Dwight D Eisenhower's Interstate Highways providing massive improvements free for truckers over private rail ROW. 
As a kid and even 20 years ago I thought these immense infrastructure improvements were just grand. I couldn't see the forest for the trees. Both eroded what the rails were previously hauling in huge ways. A few days ago I reported on T.O. that my Dad took us as a family to Canada to see this great Seaway thing. We didn't see much. But it had a tremendous impact on railroading and the undermining of the former commerce in Buffalo and Niagara Falls. Yup, the "Rust Belt" Not much left today.
 and yes, the other major contribution to the enormous failure of all the northeastern railroads (other than there were just too many rails to the same places) the incredible taxes the railroads were strapped with and still are today in New york and New Jersey. Railroads? We don't need no stinking railroads!
 I guess the drone was self-guiding its way to "Home". Neat shots all around.
That city was much more bustling when i saw it in 1960.
Gonut

You sure are making the rounds!

Regarding the seaway, this is capitalism in action, like it or not. Just like the rail routes being completed to Buffalo made the Erie Canal obsolete, so did the seaway and Welland Canal for Buffalo to the coast movements.

Posted from iPhone

Was the guy in the first pic a friend, or security coming over to check you out?