Western Railroad Discussion > Asbestos while scrapping locomotives

I was reading an article about scrapping Belgian Class 55 locomotives and there was a comment that they had to be cut up in a special area because of the risk of asbestos inside the locomotives. Was asbestos ever used in the construction of locomotives in the USA and Canada? And there any special precautions taken for asbestos when scrapping locomotives or other roling stock?

There are over 600 posts in the Steam forum that mention the word asbestos.

DutchDragon Wrote:
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> I was reading an article about scrapping Belgian
> Class 55 locomotives and there was a comment that
> they had to be cut up in a special area because of
> the risk of asbestos inside the locomotives. Was
> asbestos ever used in the construction of
> locomotives in the USA and Canada?

Yes. Many gaskets in the air and cooling systems were asbestos based, prior to the 1970s.

And there any
> special precautions taken for asbestos when
> scrapping locomotives or other roling stock?

longliveSP Wrote:
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> There are over 600 posts in the Steam forum that
> mention the word asbestos.

I apologize. I should had said "in diesel locomotives."

DutchDragon Wrote:
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> longliveSP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are over 600 posts in the Steam forum
> that
> > mention the word asbestos.
>
> I apologize. I should had said "in diesel
> locomotives."

I assumed you meant diesel locomotives, thus my answer about gasket material.

Asbestos was consistenly used for insulation in the USA on steam locomotives both for construction and overhauls. Workers would rip the stuff off when making repairs or overhauls, with a fog of the material visible in the air. They generally did not wear dust masks as the danger of exposure was not known, despite common sense telling you that you should not be inhaling those visible fibers. Of course many were (and some continue) smoking cigarettes too, despite the now well known danger involved. 

As I recall it was not until the 1970s that asbestosis became well known but by then the age of steam was over.

Passenger cars of the streamliner era and the first commuter cars all had absestos for insulation and when undergoing extensive rebuilds have to undergo remediation.

With respect to asbestos on American diesels, I found it in two places.  First, there was asbestos insulation around steam or heater piping.  Some was wrapping material - some was spackle and wrap.  I understood it to be asbestos.  Some of this might have come from the factory, some could have been a re-apply from the owning railroad.  Most of these engines were first generation and passenger equipped.  Second, was in the ceiling insulation in EMD second generation hood units.  Behind the perforated ceiling was insulation.  There were two types - black and green.  Both could injure your eyes.  The black burned like fire, and the green was jagged and would scratch up your eye.  Southern Railway mechanical told me one of these was asbestos.  Both materials aged and crumbled.  The materials peppered down on us through the perforated ceilings.  It was like sitting under a pepper mill.  After I was hospitalized (on duty) from this extremely painful exposure, my longtime superintendent did what he could to stop the situation.  Soon after SOU began a program of  spackling the perforated EMD ceilings shut.  I preserved samples of both the black and green insulation materials.  I have forgotten which one SOU told me was asbestos.  Interestingly on one of my final NS "One-on-One" in person yearly reviews,  I fould that all record of that specific eye injury with hospitalization had been removed from my file.  A number of my fellow employees from my home terminal later on filed asbestos exposure and damage lawsuits - including my railroader wife.

Asbestos was the wonder material until it wasn't. Took them about 50 years to figure out it could kill you, slowly, if the fibers got into your lungs

Up to through the SD40-2 has asbestos cab insulation. Any locomotive you go in the cab of and the walls are plastered over Has asbestos. There method of making it safe was to seal it with basically bondo

Don't forget later brake shoe material.

The hazards of asbestos was known in the 1930s by the Mansville company. They and other companies covered it up so only top officials knew. . In the early 70s the paper work was discovered and today many bucks have been set aside to cover medical expenses.  
RB

up833 Wrote:
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> The hazards of asbestos was known in the 1930s by
> the Mansville company. They and other companies
> covered it up so only top officials knew. . In the
> early 70s the paper work was discovered and today
> many bucks have been set aside to cover medical
> expenses.  
> RB

A friend grew up in the town where it was mined just outside of, Libby MT said they played in piles of it. An uncle lived there, went for a visit about 20yrs ago they told of what happened to families, women died from it when washing there husbands clothing. Sounded like a death town the way they spoke of frineds who died from it. Money from a trust fund does little good in curing anything.

BAB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> up833 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The hazards of asbestos was known in the 1930s
> by
> > the Mansville company. They and other companies
> > covered it up so only top officials knew. . In
> the
> > early 70s the paper work was discovered and
> today
> > many bucks have been set aside to cover medical
> > expenses.  
> > RB
>
> A friend grew up in the town where it was mined
> just outside of, Libby MT said they played in
> piles of it. An uncle lived there, went for a
> visit about 20yrs ago they told of what happened
> to families, women died from it when washing there
> husbands clothing. Sounded like a death town the
> way they spoke of frineds who died from it. Money
> from a trust fund does little good in curing
> anything.

Especially when the company lawyers have covered it up for decades and most of the people affected are deceased by now. SOP in the industry.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

Drknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BAB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > up833 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The hazards of asbestos was known in the
> 1930s
> > by
> > > the Mansville company. They and other
> companies
> > > covered it up so only top officials knew. .
> In
> > the
> > > early 70s the paper work was discovered and
> > today
> > > many bucks have been set aside to cover
> medical
> > > expenses.  
> > > RB
> >
> > A friend grew up in the town where it was mined
> > just outside of, Libby MT said they played in
> > piles of it. An uncle lived there, went for a
> > visit about 20yrs ago they told of what
> happened
> > to families, women died from it when washing
> there
> > husbands clothing. Sounded like a death town
> the
> > way they spoke of frineds who died from it.
> Money
> > from a trust fund does little good in curing
> > anything.
>
> Especially when the company lawyers have covered
> it up for decades and most of the people affected
> are deceased by now. SOP in the industry.
>
> Regards
>
> Posted from iPhone

According to that friend there are two funds, one in which people are being paid out of. The other has not been touched, at least not for victims it contains somewhere in the Billions and is something to do with the lawsuits. So far he and his brother get tested every year and I think recieve some amount as they do show scars from it.

Compared to many industrial substances, asbestos is largely benign as long as it does not become friable--that is, capable of being carried through the air and being inhaled.  Asbestos was a widely used insulation for decades.  Many of the old acoustical tiles used in "drop ceilings" contain asbestos.  Often so does old linoleum.  It was regularly used as insulation in old mobile homes, as it had excellent insulation qualities in thin thicknesses.   Asbestos has excellent insulation qualities and is fireproof.   All of the very expensive asbestos removal technology today is designed to do one thing--keep asbestos from becoming friable during its removal and disposal process.  An old, but largely effective way to remove asbestos lagging from steam boilers without making the asbestos friable was to simply completely soak the asbestos lagging with water before removing it.  Fully soaked asbestos lagging has a consistency about like like wet mud.  Then the wet asbestos would be bagged in waterproof plastic bags and buried in a landfill.  Once a site is contaminated with friable asbestos, however, it can remain contaminated for years and decontamination can run into the many thousands  of dollars.  Anyone looking to buy a building that is more than about 50 years old would do well to have an asbestos inspection done BEFORE purchasing the building.  Asbestos remediation costs for some older buildings can exceed the value of the building.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/24 21:00 by WW.