Western Railroad Discussion > Museum loco's in SP Sacremento Yard

Just visited Sacremento for first time since Railfair. Was surprised to see how much of the yard has had the tracks ripped up-when did this happen? Also, the "museum" engines and cars have been moved over next to the shops. Why are these engines not displayed at The Museum? What does the future hold for them? Does anyone have a roster of what is there? I saw what looks like 2 very rusted steamers, an FM switcher, a couple of Alco's etc. I was glad to see that a couple are now under some kind of protection. Also, I remember back in '99 there also was some kind of ATSF "Doodlebug" that I did not see this time-is it still there too?

CNJGEEP wrote:
>
> Just visited Sacremento for first time since Railfair. Was
> surprised to see how much of the yard has had the tracks ripped
> up-when did this happen?

Within the last year or so.

> Also, the "museum" engines and cars have been moved over next to
> the shops. Why are these engines not displayed at The Museum?

Suspect it's a combination of not enough space, not enough
money, and not enough interest. Most of it is now in sorry
visual shape as well.

> What does the future hold for them?

I asked about them during the anniversary celebration a few
months back. They didn't have specifics, but some of the pieces
that don't "belong" in California will probably be traded/sold
to other organizations. Copper thieves have reportedly pretty
well destroyed the electrical systems on the diesels, so they will
likely never run again.

> Does anyone have a roster of what is there?

I can tell you the ATSF part of it. Not counting the F's, they
have:

doodlebug M.190 (it's still there, but hard to see from the outside)
FM H12-44TS #543
FM H12-44 #608
BLW DS-4-4-10 #2260
Alco S-2 #2381
Alco RS-1 #2394
EMD NW2 #2404
Alco RSD-15 #9820
BLW 4-8-4 2925
BLW 2-10-4 5021
? 0-4-0 #5 "Little Buttercup"

The Buttercup was inside the shop building during the tour. It's
a former tank engine that Santa Fe gussied up with a tender, balloon
stack, and huge headlight back in the 40's. It used to be at the
museum proper, but they have it back in the shop now.

Among the other stuff, they have SP camera car 8799, built from
a Krauss Maffei diesel hydraulic, and the usual horde of
military surplus locomotives - an MRS-1 or two, several GE
centercabs, and an SW8 (haven't see the SW8 in a while, though).

By the way, anyone know what became of the SP DRS-4-4-1500 they
used to have? I saw it at the Railfair in 1995, but haven't seen
it since.

> I saw what looks like 2 very rusted steamers,

It's not actually rust, but Rustoleum or some other brand of
rust-resistant paint. The museum went to the trouble of removing
the asbestos and painting the boilers so they wouldn't rust out.

The original plan at the time of the museum dedication in 1981 was to build the Museum of Transportation Technology (MOTT) at a location somewhere in the vicinity of Broadway and the Sacramento River. This was to be the car and engine repair and rebuilding shops. The plan was to dedicate the MOTT in 1991. However, the economic recession in the 80s caused massive budget problems and money initially slated for the project was diverted to other uses. In fact, the California State Park System (which operates the CSRM) had such severe budget problems that for several years they did not have enough rangers to man the entry stations to State Parks from September to May.
The plant for the original MOTT was scrapped.

Meanwhile the CSRM obtained the Santa Fe collection and other equipment from SP and UP and they had no place to store it, no money to work on it, and no place to work on it.

In recent years a couple of things have happened. A State Park bond measure passed which made some money available to finally begin work on a Museum of Transportation Technology. UP took over SP and abandoned the Sacramento yard and shops. The old, historic engine shops have been given to the CSRM. These will eventually become the MOTT. However, a lot of work has to be done before this can happen including earthquake retrofitting of the old SP shops, some environmental clean-up, and the work of actually converting the buildings into a facility that can actually be used to rebuild and replair railroad engines and cars.

It is unfortunate that the CSRM was not able to carry through the original plan. They were a victim of the recession. The cars, at the time of the problem, were stored on what was then SP property. SP did not provide adequate security to keep the homeless and the criminal element from damaging the equipment. CSRM did what they could, such as the rust colored preservative that was applied, to keep the equipment from rusting into the ground. But the money just was not available to the CSRM to provide adequate housing, security, and personnel to do what needed to be done with this equipment, much of which is the only surviving examples of the engines and cars.

How much money will be available in the future to build and operate the MOTT is uncertain. Another recession could once again put the entire project in jeopardy.

One of the key elements in getting the collection you saw outdoors, indoors, is reengineering-rebuilding of the transfer table that runs between the two historic shop buildings. Once the transfer table is in place, rolling stock can be moved into any one of 27 different bays for work or storage. The original transfer table was removed and scrapped by SP and the purchase of the new one is about half funded as of now. The new transfer table is estimated to cost $300,00 with about half now in hand from donations from foundation members and the foundation itself.

State Parks (CSRM's parent agency) is way down in the State budget food chain. It competes for budget money against the rest of the State Parks. Only recently did money come available to CSRM for repairs of "deferred maintenance" items and other essential CSRM facilities. Included in the CSRM budget package is operation of the Sacramento Southern Railroad, the Eagle Theater, Railtown 1857 at Jamestown, and two other historic sites in Old Sacramento. CSRM depends heavily on donations and the CSRM Foundation for financial assistance.

Contrary to popular opinion, nearly all of the restoration work is done by volunteers under the supervision of one or two paid staff. Even though there are a number of historically significant pieces of equipment awaiting restoration, selection of a piece based on its historical significance to western railroading history, the necessary staff historical research to document the restoration intended and the final decision as to which period of time in the life of the piece will be depicted by the restoration must occur before the first nut is turned. It is a lot more complicated than just jumping on a piece of equipment and starting to chip off the rust and repaint it.

With their limited budget and volunteer workforce, CSRM has to be very selective in which pieces get selected for restoration and in which priority. Therefore, some pieces that don't have a major importance to western railroad history may be traded off to other museums where they have an impact on that museum's interpretation of their local history.

Go to http://www.californiastaterailroadmuseum.org/ for information about membership in the CSRM Foundation. Your time, talent and $$$ go to a good cause at the CSRM.

dutchman wrote:
>
> One of the key elements in getting the collection you saw
> outdoors, indoors, is reengineering-rebuilding of the transfer
> table that runs between the two historic shop buildings. Once
> the transfer table is in place, rolling stock can be moved into
> any one of 27 different bays for work or storage.

Did they pin down the cause of the fire they had up there a
few days ago (see: <A HREF="http://railroadnews.net/news/6-20.html&quot;&gt;http://railroadnews.net/news/6-20.html&lt;/A&gt;)?
Moving everything indoors sounds like a good idea, but I worry
about a vagrant lighting a fire in there to keep warm and the whole
place going up in flames the way the Pullman plant did.

I haven't read or heard of the details or cause.

>By the way, anyone know what became of the SP DRS-4-4-1500 they
used to have? I saw it at the Railfair in 1995, but haven't seen
it since.<

Well, I can't confirm this, but I heard that one end was dropped while demonstrating the ex-SP wrecker. Cable slipped, or something. Heard that one truck was damaged, possibly a cracked sideframe.

Not sure of the current status of the locomotive or its present location.

Maybe someone else can provide additional information.

Big thanks to Evan and everyone for all the info!