Western Railroad Discussion > Roberts Street Lift Bridge in St.Paul, MN

In response to a question posted yesterday asking about this bridge. Here is a photograph taken from the north end looking south showing most of the structure. I hope this helps, if not just enjoy it for the CNW lashup!

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Is this pulling a Dairyland coal train? Shot a few of them at Prescott, but never found the spot on the Roberts St. Bridge. The bridge near Western Ave. was also a good spot with the same overhead view.

Story has it that the bridge at Western Ave could rotate 360° and it was used to turn consists. Not sure how much truth there is to that. Some rails have a way of telling a tall tale or two.


RRKen

Great photo-much better than the ones I found.

Dairyland coal train--headed to Alma, Wis, or somewhere else? UP routing to St. Paul, then handed over to BNSF? Sometimes run up through Souix City/Mankato, sometimes run up through Mason City, depending on mood? The Alma plants originally burned BNSF Poweder River Basin coal, if I recall correctly the stories I heard as a kid, I assume they switched over to a UP-serviced source?

The Western Ave Bridge--that's the swing span where the CNW and Milw come in to St. Paul from Lilydale? The cantilever mode on that bridge--the thin little link that ties the top of the truss to the central tower--is much thinner than the main truss members. I always assumed this meant it *couldn't* hold any weight when swung open. But, come to think of it, the upper members of a truss are compression members, and the upper members of a cantilever are tension members, so it wouldn't have to be as beefy as the "arched" portion of the truss. Also, the bridge is assymetrical, so it would be difficult to get the weight of the power centered on the center support. And if it wasn't centered, it would be a tremendous strain on the mechanism... (Also, St. Paul had tons of turntables and some nice wyes until the early 1960s, so there'd be plenty of other places to turn the power...)

Would be interesting to know if the turntable stories are true or not...

Great photo, interesting comments.

Ted in Provo

I posted the original question about a 189' long bridge in St. Paul. It has been announced by Overland Models for 2002. It is to include approach bridges and is described as a lift bridge. It would seem from the replies that the other bridges are eliminated due to the design. So maybe the Roberts Street Lift bridge is it by default. It's a fine looking, very "railroady" structure to model and I'm hoping thats the one they are planning to do. I appreciate you posting the photo. It's the best shot I've seen so far and of course any shot of C&NW stuff is worth seeing! Thanks for the help.

Roark Shallow
pilotblue@olg.com

Thanks for the complements. Unfortunately I don't recall whether this train headed down the BN towards Alma or up the hill towards either the WC for Wisconsin Public Service, Weston or Green Bay, possibly out to Bayport, MN. I can't make out the color of the rotary end (maybe I can with a close look at the original tonight). The shape of the cars does look like Dairyland Power's old "Coalvayer" (sp?) cars and I don't recall off hand the type of cars used by the other plants. I live 15 miles from the Alma plant and it's all BNSF nowdays using new aluminum rotary dump gons DAPX300+ series. The Roberts Street bridge is a neat one and makes for an equally nice photo from the other end with the skyline of St.Paul rising above the river. The 8602 is about to roll under the Roberts Street (road) bridge. I should head back there one of these days now that I have a 28mm lens and could include the train curving towards South St.Paul (in this shot clipped out of the right hand edge with the cars visible above again).

In CNW days, the Dairyland trains were handed off to the Q at Daytons Bluff and sent to Alma, WI. About at the time UP was merging the CNW property into it's fold, Dairyland shifted to an all BN routing.


As it seems now, UP is intent with running coal up the Spine Line to St. Paul, leaving the "Omaha" side for grain and manifest traffic. Despite it being a shorter route, the Omaha Road is slower due to ABS/Track Warrant control, and physical plant limitations. For a while, the Black Dog trains for NSP ran this route, but are now back on the Spine.

Another reason for keeping the coal on the Spine is the around-the-horn move at Missouri Valley the trains must make to get to California Junction and north. The Sioux City line is already busy with coal traffic from the N & S Neal plants. In fact the conneting Fairmont branch is being upgraded to take grain traffic from the Omaha Road that is heading to the gulf to relieve congestion at Cal. Jct.

Coal on the Spine includes Bayport, Black Dog, Green Bay, Weston, Rothchild, and Superior(Duluth).

RRKen
Mason City, IA

It could also be heading to the Soo (CP) for Weston.

Thanks for the replies, though I'm disappointed nobody else speculated on the structural issues of turning the bridge with power on it (^:

So, as a clarification, the Black Dog coal comes up the spine line, presumably across the Rock Island bridge there at Pig's Eye Lake, through Dayton's Bluff, across the "Western Ave." bridge, then up the Mississippi/Minnesota Rivers to Savage? Interesting--kinda roundabout, but then so are a lot of movements.

Message for St. Croix in your trainorders box.

Ted in Provo

soo6617 wrote:
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> It could also be heading to the Soo (CP) for Weston.

I believe last I looked that WC now hauls the Weston trains from UP.
CP does however get trains from UP for Western Ave. and Rothchild (via LaCrosse). I keep forgetting the actual destination of CBTRQ.


RRKen