Steam & Excursion > UP 4014 Update from UP

https://www.up.com/aboutup/community/inside_track/october-steam-update-10-31-2018.htm 

Trains and cars both depend on suspension systems to keep the vehicle’s body safe from bumps in the road. “The back wheels of most cars have leaf springs and coil springs,” said Ed Dickens, head of the Union Pacific Steam Team. “If you didn’t have a suspension system your car would bounce, bounce, bounce down the road after you hit a pothole.”

Leaf springs consist of special alloy spring steel metal plates clamped together. The steel plates are joined at the center with a heavy-duty spring buckle. The whole thing rests on spring saddles, giant castings that take the locomotive’s weight and transfer it onto each wheel or driver.

“In between the spring saddle on the bottom of the spring buckle is a pin,” Dickens said. “The leaf springs teeter-totter up and down as necessary to respond to variations in track.”

The teetering movement allows the spring rigging to work as an interconnected system, constantly equalizing the locomotive’s weight in response to the track.

A double set of inner and outer coil springs – called a deadhanger point -- is located at the end of the locomotive frame to help absorb sudden shocks, or unexpected bumps. “The end has to be rigid, so the coil springs work nicely,” Dickens said.


Steam Update: Locomotive No. 4014 Front Engine Walk Along
Ed Dickens, head of the Union Pacific Steam Team, gives an in-depth tour of locomotive No. 4014's nearly completed front engine.

Though railroad tracks are relatively smooth, there always are minor variations along any route. The coil springs can help take the impact of the small dips and rises, minimizing movements that can, over time, reduce the life of the individual components.

All of No. 4014’s new suspension system parts were manufactured to specifications from American Locomotive Company’s (ALCO) 1940s-era designs.

“But parts have been revised, reengineered and redrawn over the years to be more durable,” Dickens said. “The revised drawings indicate all the trial and error built into the system. We made our parts to the latest state-of-the-art drawings. We don’t want to alter their weight or function. We just want to create pieces that last.”

Steam Team Foreman General Austin Barker uses a computer-aided design (CAD) program during the design process. "It allows us to observe how each part moves and interacts with adjacent components," he said. "These drawings are used to create castings for new metal parts."

Next, the team will reassemble the trailing truck -- the two wheels that go under the cab -- and the engine truck -- the front two axles underneath the locomotive’s massive engine. This will mark the completion of restoration work on No. 4014’s front engine.

“The team’s craftsmanship is outstanding,” Dickens said. “We are putting in a lot of hours, and this locomotive will be stunning when we’re done.”

I really do hope that after all this work that the program survives whatever is driving PSR.

Out

That scares me too... I hope I am wrong but I don't think there's any room for a 4-8-8-4 on a railroad with that sort of ideology...

After spending a hell of lot of money on the big boy they will find room to run it.

Why do they think this PRS thing is a good Idea? Did it actually work for CP, CN, or CSX?

If you look at EHH's attempts the effort just wasn't on scheduling and train size rationalization but also in a general
and complete cost cutting program. I can see any number of bean counters who could give a hoot about a steam
program and see it only as an expense.

Out

up3985 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do they think this PRS thing is a good Idea?
> Did it actually work for CP, CN, or CSX?

All the important operating metrics for CSX are up. Only thing down is train count.

The massive amount of money being spent on this project on things that  probally don't need to be replaced and other money being spent on mess up's will be its undoing with the bean counters. If things get worse in Omaha.

CS

CaliforniaSteam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The massive amount of money being spent on this
> project on things that  probally don't need to
> be replaced and other money being spent on mess
> up's will be its undoing with the bean counters.
> If things get worse in Omaha.
>
> CS
Can you specifically share what exactly is being replaced that doesn't need to be? It was a park engine that sat for 50 years... I'm sure pretty sure at that point everything needs some level of attention. Whats wrong with making it factory fresh?

Regards,

Dave

Not a thing. What UP is going to have is just what they set out to achieve, I think. A Factory Fresh 4000 that can roam system wide with minimal probability of a time consuming mechanical failure (not to mention the internet flame-fest if something broke) . It's their money, their program and their locomotive, not to mention it's something no one in the world ever thought they'd see...

Cheers, Dave

dbesade Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CaliforniaSteam Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The massive amount of money being spent on
> this
> > project on things that  probally don't need to
> > be replaced and other money being spent on
> mess
> > up's will be its undoing with the bean
> counters.
> > If things get worse in Omaha.
> >
> > CS
> Can you specifically share what exactly is being
> replaced that doesn't need to be? It was a park
> engine that sat for 50 years... I'm sure pretty
> sure at that point everything needs some level of
> attention. Whats wrong with making it factory
> fresh?
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave

There has been plenty of restoration's on locomotives that have been sitting in parks for decades that don't need a "factory fresh" restoration done. I have been involved with a few of these types of projects were even after sitting for decades not every part has be replaced. My motto is if its not broken don't mess with it. If UP wants to spend this money its up to them. The comment was my opinion based on past and current experience. By going through every square inch of a locomotive and replacing everything  broken or not your asking for a lot of problems. IMHO

CS

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/18 21:59 by CaliforniaSteam.

Well, the boiler's not gonna be replaced, so why the attitude?

Oh, excuse me, I forgot. This forum is the Internet locale where criticism of  UP's presently managed steam program is de rigueur.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/18 00:01 by n9949y.

n9949y Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, the boiler's not gonna be replaced, so why
> the attitude?
>
> Oh, excuse me, I forgot. This forum is the
> Internet locale where criticism of  UP's
> presently managed steam program is de rigueur.

Ed Dickens' latest update sounds like a grade school class on the basics of how a suspension system works. To me, it sounds a bit condescending as if he considers his audience to be stupid.

I mean who gives a damn whether CAD (Computer-Aided Design) is used to "design" parts or not? He should be giving a presentation AFTER the parts have been created, not while it still being "designed." It's CAD/CAM (Computer-Aided MANUFACTURING) that really matters when dealing with something that actually has to operate.

I thought CaliforniaSteam was being very constructive here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/18 03:52 by cchan006.

n9949y Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, the boiler's not gonna be replaced, so why
> the attitude?
>
> Oh, excuse me, I forgot. This forum is the
> Internet locale where criticism of  UP's
> presently managed steam program is de rigueur.

No attitude here..... If you want to be a all hail the big boy at all costs that's up to you. I used to be a Ed Dickens supporter which has been documented on this site, but for many reasons that can not be counted I changed my opinion on this matter. My post above came from my 15 years of steam experience and 20+ years of railroading experience, heck that is were all my opinion's are drawn from when it comes to my posts regarding railroad related topic's. I'm not going to be a up steam supporter only purely based on the fact that OMG they are restoring a big boy. I have been very vocal maybe to much sometimes that they would have been better served in repairing the 3985 and maintaining the 844 properly. My criticism is based on fact and experience.

CS

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After spending a hell of lot of money on the big
> boy they will find room to run it.

I would have agreed with you until the PSR announcement last month. Hedge funds and large institutional investors are willing to sacrifice sunk costs. They are the type of people that view the UP 4014 as a resource for razor blades, "to cut their losses." I think I articulated the "worry" in the thread clearer.

If UP stock price jumps 2% or more everytime Ed Dickens posts an update, then yes, I will continue to agree with what you said. :-)

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n9949y Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, the boiler's not gonna be replaced, so
> why
> > the attitude?
> >
> > Oh, excuse me, I forgot. This forum is the
> > Internet locale where criticism of  UP's
> > presently managed steam program is de rigueur.
>
> Ed Dickens' latest update sounds like a grade
> school class on the basics of how a suspension
> system works. To me, it sounds a bit condescending
> as if he considers his audience to be stupid.
>
> I mean who gives a damn whether CAD
> (Computer-Aided Design) is used to "design" parts
> or not? He should be giving a presentation AFTER
> the parts have been created, not while it still
> being "designed." It's CAD/CAM (Computer-Aided
> MANUFACTURING) that really matters when dealing
> with something that actually has to operate.
>
> I thought CaliforniaSteam was being very
> constructive here.

You guys make me sad... I feel like most of you shutterbugs have never actually built anything with your hands. I've seen CAD and CNC Mills replicate some pretty rare parts and I find it interesting UP is doing that in this instance. Its also obvious that Ed is trying to explain the basics of suspension to people who probably didn't even realize Steam Engines have springs. The first step in marketing and PR is to know your audience. I feel CaliforniaSteam was being fairly passive agressive with his comments... I still didn't get a clear response on what exactly in his broad experience he felt was being replaced or touched that didn't need to be, merely another reply about his experience and paraphrases from people who no longer post here.

If this was a post about the 2926 or some other group you guys would be choking on the foam coming out of your mouths. You quite obviously don't agree with it simply because Ed is doing it.

Regards,

Dave



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/18 08:08 by dbesade.

dbesade Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this was a post about the 2926 or some other
> group you guys would be choking on the foam coming
> out of your mouths. You quite obviously don't
> agree with it simply because Ed is doing it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave

Nope, That Game Theory fallacy (ATSF 2926 vs. UP 4014) won't work. I don't comment on the ATSF 2926 progress, because the group doesn't have the faux-educated attitude ED has. I have the right to be critical after what he did to the UP Steam Program. I only forgive him partially after UP 844 was repaired successfully. To silence the critics, UP 4014 restoration must be completed, and it is not done yet.

Obviously, CaliforniaSteam is right about the Big Boy irrationality he sees. And as for the condescending comments about "shutterbugs", I challenge you to tackle some of the technical subjects that some of us have done here on TO.

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dbesade Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If this was a post about the 2926 or some other
> > group you guys would be choking on the foam
> coming
> > out of your mouths. You quite obviously don't
> > agree with it simply because Ed is doing it.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dave
>
> Nope, That Game Theory fallacy (ATSF 2926 vs. UP
> 4014) won't work. I don't comment on the ATSF 2926
> progress, because the group doesn't have the
> faux-educated attitude ED has. I have the right to
> be critical after what he did to the UP Steam
> Program. I only forgive him partially after UP 844
> was repaired successfully. To silence the critics,
> UP 4014 restoration must be completed, and it is
> not done yet.
>
> Obviously, CaliforniaSteam is right about the Big
> Boy irrationality he sees. And as for the
> condescending comments about "shutterbugs", I
> challenge you to tackle some of the technical
> subjects that some of us have done here on TO.

Hear, hear!!!!!     An excellent response, and thank you.

Comments are in-line below. Honestly... this thread of discussion is becoming toxic and a distraction from both the news I posted and the intent of this forum to provide exciting and unique content. This will be my last reply to CCHAN and California Steam on this topic.

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dbesade Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If this was a post about the 2926 or some other
> > group you guys would be choking on the foam
> coming
> > out of your mouths. You quite obviously don't
> > agree with it simply because Ed is doing it.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dave
>
> Nope, That Game Theory fallacy (ATSF 2926 vs. UP
> 4014) won't work. I don't comment on the ATSF 2926
> progress, because the group doesn't have the
> faux-educated attitude ED has.
I'm not sure outside of Jack and a few others who regularly post here have any education at all on Steam Engines... myself included. Which is why I specifically asked what he felt was being worked on that didn't need to be. Furthermore the 2926 group has made some interesting choices they will have to live with. Time will tell.

> I have the right to
> be critical after what he did to the UP Steam
> Program.
I'm sure the Program lost a lot of sleep over you being critical. I find it interesting that only a handful of people made a lot of noise about this.

> I only forgive him partially after UP 844
> was repaired successfully. To silence the critics,
> UP 4014 restoration must be completed, and it is
> not done yet.
If thats the rules of the game then critics should hold their tongues until its completed... or is this another double standard?

> Obviously, CaliforniaSteam is right about the Big
> Boy irrationality he sees.
Why? Because you and Jack think he is? I've merely asked what specifically he felt was being done that didn't need to be and in essence the only response I get is.. "Because I say so". Common, lets grow the hell up and give an actual answer.... or is the truth that there is no answer?

> And as for the
> condescending comments about "shutterbugs", I
> challenge you to tackle some of the technical
> subjects that some of us have done here on TO.
Not disputing the technical experts here. I have a great respect for Jack, Steve, Bob, Ross, Wess Camp, EarlK and many others. Doesn't mean I always have to agree... respect isn't blind faith or blind trust. What I am disputing is Arm-Chair Foamers who know little more about a Locomotive than how to frame it being critical of one program or another without the technical backing to justify it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/18 08:45 by dbesade.

Man, did my popcorn box get bigger....

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