Steam & Excursion > Regarding the proposed UP/NS merger..

If UP and NS do go through with a merger, how do you think that will affect possible steam operations or movements that have occured on NS lines historically, such as 765, 261, etc. Or with all these ongoing restorations....T1 5550, 1361, 2101, 576, etc...under this new entity, do you think their chances of being able to operate excursions would increase or decrease?

dcoursey Wrote:
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> If UP and NS do go through with a merger, how do
> you think that will affect possible steam
> operations or movements that have occured on NS
> lines historically, such as 765, 261, etc. Or with
> all these ongoing restorations....T1 5550, 1361,
> 2101, 576, etc...under this new entity, do you
> think their chances of being able to operate
> excursions would increase or decrease?

First of all, NS has NOT allowed "excursions" on their lines in quite a few years. NS has been very supportive of N&W 611 and NKP 765 with diesel/PTC assisted "ferry moves", plus towing C&O 614 to Strasburg Rail Road.

Under UP ownership, you could forget any and all such "moves"!

I know there haven't been any official excursions in a very long time, I guess I was mostly asking what the likelihood would be that those excursions could occur again given UP has its own steam program. Perhaps they'd allow an east coast steam program in some form. It's disappointing to hear that UP isn't as friendly to ferry moves. It'll be interesting to see the extent that the steam preservation community will be affected by the merger

dcoursey Wrote:
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> I know there haven't been any official excursions
> in a very long time, I guess I was mostly asking
> what the likelihood would be that those excursions
> could occur again given UP has its own steam
> program.


Please remember that the UP no longer operates/allows "excursions" any more either, ever since the demise of the Cheyenne Frontier Days operations which were sponsored by the Denver Post. Any time there are "paying passengers" on board the UP passenger equipment, the sponsoring organization has been the UP Museum in Council Bluffs, IA. Plus the "tickets" are frightfully expensive, over a $1000 for a dome seat. There are no photo run-bys, with a bus return for the passengers.

Perhaps they'd allow an east coast steam
> program in some form.


I seriously doubt THAT.


It's disappointing to hear
> that UP isn't as friendly to ferry moves. It'll be
> interesting to see the extent that the steam
> preservation community will be affected by the
> merger

I would think if it were just a deadhead move, something could be worked out. SP 4449 and SP&S 700 use the UP main in Portland as deadhead moves for their trips over to Union Station and BNSF tracks. UP has said in the past they are willing to assist other steam locomotives to get to other railroads they can run on.

Posted from iPhone

GNRocky Wrote:
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> I would think if it were just a deadhead move,
> something could be worked out. SP 4449 and SP&S
> 700 use the UP main in Portland as deadhead moves
> for their trips over to Union Station and BNSF
> tracks.

Yes, under BNSF trackage rites.

UP has said in the past they are willing
> to assist other steam locomotives to get to other
> railroads they can run on.

Just who on UP has EVER stated THAT???
 

If the merger goes thru, it will be interesting to see which Union Pacific operating practices are imposed on traditional NS or Conrail, etc territories. 

And how long it takes UP to break the train dispatchers union and trainmasters.

HotWater Wrote:
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>
> Just who on UP has EVER stated THAT???
>  

John Bromely when he was working in PR for UP had stated that when I had met him and asked about other steam locomotive movements on UP rails besides their own. Of course that was several years ago now and that may have changed now with todays current management.

Posted from iPhone

I would think at the very least they still allow ferry moves. Frisco 1522 has to run over the UP from Kirkwood to St. Louis (even doubleheaded with 844) and SP 4449 a couple times had worked with UP even doubleheading with 844 twice in 1975 and in 2007. Most recent was SP 2472 dead in tow from Niles Canyon to the NWP.

Posted from Android

GNRocky Wrote:
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> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Just who on UP has EVER stated THAT???
> >  
>
> John Bromely when he was working in PR for UP had
> stated that when I had met him and asked about
> other steam locomotive movements on UP rails
> besides their own. Of course that was several
> years ago now and that may have changed now with
> todays current management.

That was way more than "several years ago", and would have been prior to Steve Lee's retirement in December of 2010.

GNRocky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Just who on UP has EVER stated THAT???
> >  
>
> John Bromely when he was working in PR for UP had
> stated that when I had met him and asked about
> other steam locomotive movements on UP rails
> besides their own. Of course that was several
> years ago now and that may have changed now with
> todays current management.
>
> Posted from iPhone

A lot changes in 15 years.

akpsteam Wrote:
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> I would think at the very least they still allow
> ferry moves.

Nope.

Frisco 1522 has to run over the UP
> from Kirkwood to St. Louis (even doubleheaded with
> 844)

That was well prior to Steve Lee's retirement.

and SP 4449 a couple times had worked with UP
> even doubleheading with 844 twice in 1975 and in
> 2007.

Again, all prior to Steve Lee's retirement.

Most recent was SP 2472 dead in tow from
> Niles Canyon to the NWP.

Which took forever to happen.
 

HotWater Wrote:
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> GNRocky Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HotWater Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > Just who on UP has EVER stated THAT???
> > >  
> >
> > John Bromely when he was working in PR for UP
> had
> > stated that when I had met him and asked about
> > other steam locomotive movements on UP rails
> > besides their own. Of course that was several
> > years ago now and that may have changed now
> with
> > todays current management.
>
> That was way more than "several years ago", and
> would have been prior to Steve Lee's retirement in
> December of 2010.

Very true, it was definitely during the Steve Lee era. Hard to believe it has been that long ago already.

Would Ed Dickens be able to have any influence on other non-UP Steam deadhead moves or would it just be a matter of any organization would have to work directly with management in Omaha and hope they say yes?

Posted from iPhone

i highly doubt that Ed has any influence over non up steam moves.
>but, Ed is a member here, maybe he can comment about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/25 10:42 by Mike6640-2.

Basically, the steam restoration movement is screwed with  a UP-NS merger.

We need to get a condition or legal method to force the merged company to handle dead steam locomotives so that they can be relocated to more steam friendly properties.

ts1457 Wrote:
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> Basically, the steam restoration movement is
> screwed with  a UP-NS merger.

That's what I'm scared might happen. Thinking that the merger might stop the restorations of 614, 5550, 1361, and 2101 in its tracks, and severely limit 611 or 765's operations is a frightening prospect. But such is the times, I reckon.

Sic transit gloria mundi

I would more interested to see if the U.P. would send a steam trip on the N.S. territory. I feel you could forget about any other steam activities other than U.P. if this merger happens.

4014 is supposed to visit DC for the semiquentennial, before the premerger talk

dan Wrote:
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> 4014 is supposed to visit DC for the
> semiquentennial, before the premerger talk

Wonder where, what with all those overhead wires?

The 4014 could probably get as far East as Alexandria station.

Potomac Yard isn't there anymore, so that's out.

Posted from Android