Steam & Excursion > SP steam program

I had heard a story several years ago from a good family friend who worked for the SP and retired just before the UP merger that SP had considered having a PR steam program similar to UP’s at the end of the steam era. According to the story, the GS-6 SP 4460 and cab forward SP 4274 or 4294 were the locomotives considered being kept around for this program being based out of either San Jose or Sacramento. Has anyone else heard of this story? This plan obviously sadly never happened but one has to wonder if this had happened what it may have been.

Interesting question.

GNRocky Wrote:
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> I had heard a story several years ago from a good
> family friend who worked for the SP and retired
> just before the UP merger that SP had considered
> having a PR steam program similar to UP’s at the
> end of the steam era. According to the story, the
> GS-6 SP 4460 and cab forward SP 4274 or 4294 were
> the locomotives considered being kept around for
> this program being based out of either San Jose or
> Sacramento. Has anyone else heard of this story?
> This plan obviously sadly never happened but one
> has to wonder if this had happened what it may
> have been.

I have heard the exact opposite claim, that SP was completely opposed to any steam excursions on their line after 4460's last run. It took a good fight to ensure the 4294 wouldn't be scrapped.

I have read that Fred Stindt of the R&LHS was responsible for the 4294 being saved.

Steve 

I was around for several of the last trips of 4460, and the SP could not wait to eliminate steam.  The piston rods were cut soon after the 4460 got back from Reno.  A few years later, the guys in Pomona got the 5021 steaming out in San Bernardino on the AT&SF.  SP put the stop to that quickly:  no more steam, period.

Sadly, the friendly SP was not a friend of steam, even in excursion service.

The 5021 was steamed up in the Fall of 1961 at the LA County Fair in Pomona and ran back and forth on about 1000 feet of track.  it was later moved to storage on the Santa Fe at San Bernardino.  It was never fired up there.

Steve

You are right about that and thanks for the correction.  I now remember reading in Trains that the engine was running, and I believe it was fired with propane.  Do I have that one right?

> I have heard the exact opposite claim, that SP was
> completely opposed to any steam excursions on
> their line after 4460's last run. It took a good
> fight to ensure the 4294 wouldn't be scrapped.

I had heard this side of the story too, it sounded like there was a group in SP that would have liked a stream program to come together however the higher ups were not interested and said no way. I was just thinking had it happened it would have been interesting to see how they would have run a steam program and how long it may have lasted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/25 16:26 by GNRocky.

It is interesting that the SP did donate many steam locomotives to various on-line cities and the like.  The one great loss was that no Sacramento-built 4-8-2s were saved.  On the other hand,  the great PRR and NYC preserved little or no steam power,  especially Perlman's NYC.

Perlman also exterminated all D&RGW standard gauge steam.  The only unscrapped D&RGW standard gauge locomotives after 1956 were a couple sold to shortlines.  D&RGW narrow-gauge steam only survived the Perlman era because he was not successful during his tenure of scrapping all of the narrow-gauge D&RGW lines, and it made no sense for diesel narrow-gauge locomotives to be procured for those narrow-gauge lines for what was then thought to be their short-lived continued existence.

masterphots Wrote:
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>   On the other
> hand,  the great PRR and NYC preserved little or
> no steam power,  especially Perlman's NYC.

The PRR set aside a number of steam locomotives which were stored at its Northumberland, Penn. roundhouse. They became the basis for the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania’s collection of PRR steam locomotives.

Posted from iPhone

Didn't the C&O store a large amount of steam engines in Russell, Ky?

masterphots Wrote:
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> It is interesting that the SP did donate many
> steam locomotives to various on-line cities and
> the like.  The one great loss was that no
> Sacramento-built 4-8-2s were saved.  On the other
> hand,  the great PRR and NYC preserved little or
> no steam power,  especially Perlman's NYC.

I think one Mountain was hidden away for donation but the subject city did not want it so it was scrapped. Such a shame.

Yes

tomstp Wrote:
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> Didn't the C&O store a large amount of steam
> engines in Russell, Ky?

Appalachianrails Wrote:
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> Yes
>
> tomstp Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Didn't the C&O store a large amount of steam
> > engines in Russell, Ky?

For how long?

Some were still there up to the 70s.

HotWater Wrote:
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> Appalachianrails Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes
> >
> > tomstp Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Didn't the C&O store a large amount of steam
> > > engines in Russell, Ky?
>
> For how long?

While the Southern Pacific never had a steam program per se, the company was not completely averse to steam locomotives traversing its rails.
 
As early as 1972, the Flying Scotsman was a visitor. Beginning in 1975, SP 4449 began operations all over the SP system and beyond. That started to change when UP absorbed the SP in 1996.
SP 2472 ran many miles on the SP. Other operating visitors included SP 2467, UP 844 & 3985. Even McCloud 25 got a little time on the SP main. I'm sure there's more I'm not aware of...

S_W

Once SP ran its last steam excursion, 4460 in October 1958, it was pretty averse to running any more steam during the DJ Russell era (president 1952 - 1964, chairman of the board 1964 - 1972).

Steve

Stevo_Weimario Wrote:
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> While the Southern Pacific never had a steam
> program per se, the company was not completely
> averse to steam locomotives traversing its rails.
>  
> As early as 1972, the Flying Scotsman was a
> visitor. Beginning in 1975, SP 4449 began
> operations all over the SP system and beyond. That
> started to change when UP absorbed the SP in
> 1996.
> SP 2472 ran many miles on the SP. Other operating
> visitors included SP 2467, UP 844 & 3985. Even
> McCloud 25 got a little time on the SP main. I'm
> sure there's more I'm not aware of...
>
> S_W

The Flying Scotsman and American Freedom Train were permitted as they were national public relations trips as opposed to just being an appeal to railfans. It wasn't until the old heads at the top like BFB were kicked off during the SPSF merger that SP became more receptive to railfan events, especially when Phil Anschutz became president. He even authorized most of the support business fleet to be painted to match 4449's consist.

SP did not appear to have a problem with diesel pulled railfan events.  They ran the Oakland to Truckee trips called Truckee Limited, and they ran Los Angeles to Bakersfield trips sponsored by Pacific Railroad Society.  And, there were other excursions over SP.  They just seemed to have a problem with steam excursions.

Steve