Steam & Excursion > Before Baldwin Was Baldwin

For the sake of accuracy, this B4 Atlantic, and 65 others just like it, were built by Burnham, Williams & Company of Eddystone, Pennsylvania in 1901 for the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul. Not until 1909 would the firm finally be named for its founder. Complete specifications for this compound with 62 inch drivers can be found at steamlocomotivecom. Looking at the configuration of this locomotive raises a question, especially since this is before the the Ragonnet power reverser was patented in 1909. Were the Johnson bars on a compound more difficult to operate than on a non compound locomotive in the absence of a power reverser?
Photo credit the Detroit Photographic Company and the Library of Congress.
Be of good cheer,
—Mac
www.lowellamrine.com

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Amazing! This appears to be set up for link and pin couplers!
Bob

refarkas Wrote:
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> Amazing! This appears to be set up for link and
> pin couplers!
> Bob

Not quite.  That's the pocket for a master car builder's style coupler.  Fortunately, a quick search of the Google machine found an illustration!

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/26 03:18 by MaryMcPherson.

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I don't recall ever seeing a dome-shaped headlight housing before!  Also, is there perhaps a typo as these drivers appear to be more than 62" diameter.
Gordon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/26 06:05 by gbmott.

Struck me as odd too, since the surrounding classes all have 68 inch drivers, but that's what the specification sheet shows.
—Mac

gbmott Wrote:
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> I don't recall ever seeing a dome-shaped headlight
> housing before!  Also, is there perhaps a typo as
> these drivers appear to be more than 62"
> diameter.
> Gordon

Thanks to Mary for clearing up my mistake when from this photo I thought that this locomotive might still have been set up for link and pin couplers.
Bob

Georges Locomotive!!

> Were the Johnson bars on a compound more difficult
> to operate than on a non compound locomotive in the
> absence of a power reverser?

The engine in the pic has one valve on each side?
Operated by the same sort of Stephenson gear
as on a 2-cyl engine?

Tim,
The are two valves chests visible above the cylinder, hence my question.
—Mac

timz Wrote:
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> > Were the Johnson bars on a compound more
> difficult
> > to operate than on a non compound locomotive in
> the
> > absence of a power reverser?
>
> The engine in the pic has one valve on each side?
> Operated by the same sort of Stephenson gear
> as on a 2-cyl engine?

Don't you think it's a Vauclain compound, with
one valve and two cylinders on each side?

That twin valve is does not look to be a Vauclain, but it's going to take some more knowledgeable to answer that for certain.
—Mac

timz Wrote:
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> Don't you think it's a Vauclain compound, with
> one valve and two cylinders on each side?

There can't be any cylinders inside the engine's frame,
so looks like the high-pressure and low-pressure cylinders
are both outside, along with one valve on each side.

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> refarkas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Amazing! This appears to be set up for link and
> > pin couplers!
> > Bob
>
> Not quite.  That's the pocket for a master car
> builder's style coupler.  Fortunately, a quick
> search of the Google machine found an
> illustration!

I think the law in 1893 which required the installation of knuckle couplers and air brakes had a provision that gave railroads until 1919? to install them. So the pilot was set up to accomodate the use of both. That was also why you saw many cars equipped with a split knuckle to be able to couple cars with knuckle couplers to cars still equipped with link and pin couplers.

The two cylinders are above and below each other connected to a common crosshead, the piston valve is inboard, operated by conventional Stephenson Valve Gear.  Controlling the valve motion would not be any more difficult than any other moderate sized Shephenson geared locomotive of the era, perhaps a little better being a piston valve.  The piston valves were outside admission, which tend to be a handful at speed.

Correction: This is a Class A1, same builder 1896 with 78 inch drivers. A duplicate number caused the error and Evan caught it, so an oversized thank you to him for that. Correct specifications here.
—Mac



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/26 19:06 by MacBeau.

Thanks for this photo.  At 78 inches those are pretty tall drivers.  Just think, the Hiawathas that followed in the 30s had 84 inch.  I wonder what the tallest were on any railroad ?

Craig Hanson
Vay, Idaho

In the US, you mean? Wasn't there an 86-inch somewhere?

timz Wrote:

> Wasn't there an 86-inch somewhere?

New York Central and Hudson River Railroad 4-4-0 #999 is said to have had 86.5-inch drivers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Central_and_Hudson_River_Railroad_No._999
https://streamlinermemories.info/?p=21684

Reading also had some 4-4-2's with 86-inch drivers:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/pr340s.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/pr343sa.jpg
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325744305936

In Germany, DR 18 201 has 90.5-inch drivers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR_18_201

This 19th century Norris-built 6-2-0 monstrosity on the Camden & Amboy is reputed to have had 96" drivers:

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/chimney/No50%20crampton.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/carr.jpg
https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=6-2-0&railroad=ca

In the UK, broad gauge Bristol & Exeter had some 4-2-4's with 108-inch drivers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_and_Exeter_Railway_4-2-4T_locomotives
https://www.loco-info.com/view.aspx?id=15190

In France, 2-4-0 L'Aigle had 112-inch drivers:

https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/Ouest_No._80_L%27Aigle

That page claims the record was held by the UK's Hurricane with 120-inch drivers:

https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/The_Hurricane
https://www.nrmfriends.org.uk/post/a-short-lived-hurricane

Amazing set of links, thanks for the posting all of those.
—Mac

Evan_Werkema Wrote:
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> timz Wrote:
>
> > Wasn't there an 86-inch somewhere?
>
> New York Central and Hudson River Railroad 4-4-0
> #999 is said to have had 86.5-inch drivers:

For the record, it was still the Baldwin Locomotive Works, owned and operated by Burnham, Williams & Co.