Steam & Excursion > Fantail

In my reply to the post on blind drivers, I made mention of the PRR's H-1's, as fantails.

I now wonder if anyone knows what I was refering to: So, an "attaboy", a pat on the head and scratch behind the ears, or a virtual visit by your favorite massuse, to the first person to tell me what distinguishes an engine as a fantail?

Extra credit: recongizing that fantail is a colloquilism, what was the official name?

Extra extra credit: What other roads built engines this way, and what were they called? What famous builder put 'em together?

Oh man . . . somehow I don't think Google's gonna help me on this one!

wlankenau Wrote:
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> Oh man . . . somehow I don't think Google's gonna
> help me on this one!

Not Google nor Wikepedia! You are now in the land of esoterica on this one.

Com'on guys. I believe that someone, somewhere, still alive on this planet (besides me) must know.

Hint: Now deceased writers Linn Westcott and Franklin A. King made note of it.

Just a stab here...but didn't fantail refer to a switch engine?

Tom

Just a guess based on your clues, but perhaps fantail refers to an engine with a belpaire firebox, and by extension the major builder would be Baldwin?

Well, I DID google Pennsylvania Railroad H-1, and they didn't have Belpaires.

But the PRRTHS site did refer to an unusual firebox for the time, that the author said pre-dated the Belpaire. (He also said they were called Modocs! On the PRR?) And, they were Baldwins.

Here's the link, scroll down to April 1875:

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:IOfRgoFtrK0J:www.prrths.com/Hagley/PRR1875%2520Feb%252006.pdf+pennsylvania+railroad+H1&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9&client=safari

First Class I (later H1) 2-8-0 freight locomotive, No. 113, built at
Altoona; Class I locomotives are heavier versions (92,700 lbs.) of
earlier Baldwin 2-8-0's and are also called "Modocs" after the Modoc
Indians for their hauling power; first 2-8-0's built in quantity as a standard freight
locomotive; had steel boiler barrel and firebox sloping to the rear
with the space between the roof sheet and crown sheet filled with
water, called the "Altoona boiler"; possibly influenced by Isaac
Dripps's firebox on Camden & Amboy Crampton locomotives in late
1840s; "Altoona boiler" possibly influences Collin's adoption of
Belpaire firebox 10 years later. (RyW, Warner, PRRTHS)

Deckless?

MTMEngineer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my reply to the post on blind drivers, I made
> mention of the PRR's H-1's, as fantails.
>
> I now wonder if anyone knows what I was refering
> to: So, an "attaboy", a pat on the head and
> scratch behind the ears, or a virtual visit by
> your favorite massuse, to the first person to tell
> me what distinguishes an engine as a fantail?
>
> Extra credit: recongizing that fantail is a
> colloquilism, what was the official name?
>
> Extra extra credit: What other roads built engines
> this way, and what were they called? What famous
> builder put 'em together?


I'm a westerner, an old westerner maybe, but still not from the east coast, so this is just a wild guess. Are "Fantails" also called "Mother Hubbards"?

Con

wlankenau got it right, it refers to an Altoona Boiler.

I'v gotta run now, but this evening I'll put together some sketches showing the unique design, if no one else comes up with one first.

Anyone got the second part of the question, yet? Who else was a big user of fantail engines (though not the same design as the H-1's)?

MTMEngineer Wrote:
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> wlankenau got it right, it refers to an Altoona
> Boiler.

And i thought Google would let me down! Found a little more about this on the PRRTHS site:

http://www.prrths.com/PRR_Belpaire.html

Can't quite get my head around this "sloping firebox" idea, though. Am looking forward to MTM's illustrations.

wlankenau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MTMEngineer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > wlankenau got it right, it refers to an Altoona
> > Boiler.
>
> And i thought Google would let me down! Found a
> little more about this on the PRRTHS site:
>
> http://www.prrths.com/PRR_Belpaire.html
>
> Can't quite get my head around this "sloping
> firebox" idea, though. Am looking forward to MTM's
> illustrations.


OK, here are three very quick, very crude sketches illustrating a longitudinal section of a convention locomotive boiler, and Altoona boiler, and the second major type of fantail, that of Ross Winans on his "Camel" engines for the B&O and the Erie (nobody got the extra credit).

Locomotive fireboxes of the time were generally limited to 33" wide, as they were located between the frames of the engines. The desire for increased grate area inspired these designs where a wider firebox could be placed behind the drivers, but since the trailing truck hadn't been invented yet there was a desire to keep reduce the water space at the back of the boiler (and in the case of the Altoona boiler PRR was looking for a design which had the firebox make up of flat rather than curved plates).

Without a trailing truck, these designs tended to be weak at the joint in the boiler where the barrel joined the firebox.

The Ross Winans boiler also had a huge steam dome at the very front of the boiler (a) help balance the weight of the cantelevered firebox, (b) make up for lack of steam space above the firebox, and (c) contain the throttle mechanism as the cab was mounted atop rather than behind the boiler.

The firedoor on an Altoona was at the standard position (marked "D" in the sketches) and the fireman stood on the tender and fired as was standard practice on all deckless engines. Ross Winans put the firedoor ON TOP of the firebox! Must have been very difficult to fire! There was some sort of funnel arrangement associated with the firedoor, which I have never seen clearly described, which served to assist in distributing coal shoveled into the hole.

Altoona boiler

---

So, apparently both the Altoona and Winans boilers had the space at the top of the firebox (arch?) full of water (we should hope!), and therefore there was no steam produced above the firebox, as on a conventional boiler, only in the boiler barrel. I would think that this would inhibit steam production.