Steam & Excursion > Feather River 8

Anybody know the situation with the 8 at Virginia City? Last I heard she has some serious boiler issues. Any truth to that?

There were some boiler repairs that were done recently. According to Tom Gray of the V&T she is now back in service.

Martin

Awesome, good to hear. I wonder when it will be out and running. Years ago I ran the 29 a little, but I've only ever seen the 8 out on the road once. Any ideas when it might be out of the barn next?

Isn't the 8 owed by the Feather River RR Historical Society? My understanding is that their lease to the Grays expired and the V&T was required to return it in operable condition, thus the recent boiler repairs. I think the locomotive was going to be up for sale and maybe not for use by the V&T. Any more concrete info. on that would be great.

inyo22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isn't the 8 owed by the Feather River RR
> Historical Society? My understanding is that
> their lease to the Grays expired and the V&T was
> required to return it in operable condition, thus
> the recent boiler repairs. I think the locomotive
> was going to be up for sale and maybe not for use
> by the V&T. Any more concrete info. on that would
> be great.


The FRSL / Clover Valley / Hobart Southern 8 is owned by the Feather River Short Line. Note that this group is NOT affiliated with the Feather River Rail Society, operators of the WP Museum in Portola, although the FRSL did share the Portola site with the FRRS for a few years.

I would be curious to hear about any #8 news as well. I worked on the restoration of that engine in Portola along with former FRSL President James Boynton and the rest of the crew back then. Over the last year or so, I have tried to make contact with those who currently manage the FRSL but to no avail. I had regular contact with former GM Mike Tackett, but since he passed away I've heard nothing.

There are still many FRSL members out there who wonder what's happening with "their" engine. If anyone has real news, we would appreciate hearing it.


Eugene Vicknair
FRSL Life Member

You are correct that the FRSL still owns the engine. The V&T leases the engine from FRSL. There was a "low water event" that occurred to the engine several years ago which caused damage to the firebox. This and some questionable repairs took the engine out of service.
In resolving the ensuing dispute over the lease the V&T made repairs to the engine that were subject to the approval of an independent inspector.
Once the engine was repaired and those repairs approved that made the engine potentially available for further lease by the V&T. However the settlement document did not guaranty that the V&T could continue to lease the engine. That final decision is up to the FRSL.
The V&T reports the engine as operable now. I do not know if the FRSL has agreed to continue the lease with the V&T.

Martin

In short, V&T Commissioner John Tyson is working to get the #8 back from the V&T and move it to Gold Hill. John is now the rep for Feather River Shortline.

There's info on the Gold Hill Historical Society website and a bunch more below: http://www.goldhillnv.org/

Here's some info being posted on another forum, due to Rule #7 I will put some of it up here:

From Steve S. a member of the Gold Hill historical society, then a couple anonymous posts:

The locomotive title remains, and always has been, with the Feather
River Shortline. The locomotive was leased to the V&T and is being
returned to the Feather River Shortline in settlement of a legal matter.

It is not being transferred to the Gold Hill Historical Society. It is
being relocated from the V&T shops to track at the Gold Hill Depot --
county property -- with county permission (and the county is investing
in the grading necessary to lay the spur track on which it will sit).
The Gold Hill Historical Society will invest in the necessary track and
fence to secure it.

The intent is to run Locomotive #8 for special events on the extended
V&T line. For example, double-headers, government sponsored functions,
and major publicity events.

I don't understand the comments about swapping out this locomotive for
another one so that this one could go to Portola. What would be the
pupose of doing that? #8, a prairie, has been demonstrated to run well
on the existing V&T, which is where the ruling grade and curves are.
At any rate, the owners are not interested in any swaps or moving the
locomotive to Portola, as I understand it. You could always ask them,
of course.

ANOTHER...

HI all,

Feather River Shortline is an organization that WAS once a real group with many members. If you think the Commission runs things oddly, y'a ain't seen nutin' based on the history I have been told of this group. The group predates the FRRS, and did, for a time, operate at the museum. The locomotive's history is from the area, but I forget just which area shortline. When taken out of service, it was displayed at the Quincy Fairgrounds, and so began the FRS who brought it back to operation (as has been noted here, the operation was the subject of a court case regarding operation of a steam locomotive not up to FRA on an FRA regulated railroad).

Because the group violated some operational safety rules at Portola, their use of the facility was restricted (by how much I don't know) and because of this disagreement, the group (actually, the group leader himself) took "their" locomotive out of the county, AND out of the state--which was, and is, a direct violation of their original charter. No one has legally challenged this, and at this point in time, it is likely a moot question. I bring it up as history, but also as a reason it should return "home" to the Quincy/Portola area--especially if it is going to be subject to outside storage--NEVER a good idea for a steam locomotive especially in these times of "appropriation of valuable metals" by um, OK, SCUM!

BTW, FRS also owned/owns? some rolling stock, and I think there is a sad story there too--something about chainsawing the cupola off the caboose to make it easier to move.

AND ANOTHER...

I think your description is probably pretty accurate. I remember
seeing that engine on open air display at the fairgrounds in Quincy
many years ago and may have photographed it there. I don't believe it
had any fence around it but it was in an area that supposedly was
"secure".

David Myrick's books "Railroads of Nevada & Eastern California"
(Howell-North Books, 1963) have rosters that show #8 as being built by
Baldwin in November 1907 and being purchased initially by the Sierra
Nevada Wood & Lumber Co., Hobart Mills. This company became the Hobart
Estate Co. in 1917. Since this company's lines into the woods were
narrow gauge, the engine was used on the Company's standard gauge
connection between Hobart Mills and Truckee until 1937. This
connection became known as the Hobart Southern in 1932. In August
1938, #8 was sold to the Clover Valley Lumber Co. of Loyalton and was
used as a woods switcher by them. #8 was acquired by the Feather River
Shortline Ry. in March 1958 and placed on display in Quincy.

My friend, railroad author and historian the late Ted Wurm, was a
member of the FRS. His descriptions of the organization were along the
same lines as yours. He made me a member as a Christmas present on
December 25, 1993, with the honorary title of "Vice President of
Abandoned Grades" on an unsigned certificate which hangs in my den. I
received an occasionally published newsletter for a little while and
then it just stopped. Apparently, the late Jim Boynton had either
started the organization or had become President at some point.
Boynton, I think, had once worked for the WP. He passed away and his
widow took his place for a while, from what I remember Ted telling me.
Then she passed away and I lost all track of the group. I think Ted
did, too, because after his telling me this, I never heard anything
more. Ted passed away after a long illness in February 2004.

It was somewhere about this time that the #8 went to Bob Gray, possibly
on loan; I don't know. Ted did say to me back then that the FRS
originally had gotten the Fairgrounds in Quincy to agree to display the
engine and I believe he told me that the Fairgrounds (whoever ran them)
did not like the engine displayed there, etc., which is why it was
moved to the Portola Museum and eventually operated there.

I never met any other FRS members besides Ted, never went to any
meetings (if there were any), and I have no idea as to whether the FRS
still exists in any form. I have no recollections of any kind
regarding FRS owned rolling stock. There weren't any with the engine
at the Fairgrounds; there may have been some at the Portola Museum but
that's only a guess.


Well, that's all I can remember for now, I'm sure others will chime in now with other information!

According the the Gold Hill Historical Society website I referred to above...

"The GHHS was named the physical custodial agent for steam locomotive #8, owned by the Feather River Short Line Railroad."

From the http://www.goldhillnv.org/ home page

(added later: If you look up Feather River Shortline on the CA Sec of State website it says they are suspended, whatever that means)

From the March 12, 2007 V&T Commission meeting minutes:

11. Discussion and possible action on FEATHER RIVER SHORTLINE RAILROAD STEAM LOCOMOTIVE #8 – MIKE TACKETT
Mike Tackett said that what he proposed was for the attorneys get together to work up an agreement so when Engine #8 is done being refurbished by the V&T Railroad, it can be remanded to the Commission for care and custody. The Commission could use it as a spare locomotive. He has some pictures of the engine. That is what they would like to see happen and they know it will take some time. They have until October 2008 before the repairs are finished so they have time to work out an agreement. Mr. Tackett said they weren’t looking for any remuneration they just want to get it back in service and in a place where it will be kept and preserved. Commissioner Ayres asked if it was being donated to the Foundation. Mr. Tackett said his board was concerned about it being a donation because of the owner of the locomotive and the way it came to them. He thought that would be worked out with the attorneys. It was donated by the Feather River Lumber Company to Feather River Short Line Railroad in Quincy. He wasn’t sure how that would work. It would be something for Mr. Rowe and Mr. Rankl to work out. Chairman Hadfield clarified that what Mike Tackett was asking for was permission for the Commission’s attorney to work with their attorney Mr. Rankel, to draft an agreement to let the commission use the engine in perpetuity and what ever part of the agreement to bring back to the Commission for formal action. They’re looking for a place to put it. When they get the ticket the engine will have a full fifteen years and 1492 days for the Commission to use and the ticket would expire in 2023. Commissioner Tyson asked if this engine was something the Commission could utilize with a passenger car while the line is being built to keep interest alive. They would have no problem with it being used. Commissioner Teixeira said he saw no down side. Commissioner Tyson made the motion that they accept Mike Tackett’s offer and authorize his attorney to meet with the Commission’s attorney to begin negotiations so the Commission can use Engine #8. Commissioner Allen seconded the motion. Chairman called for discussion and with none stated he called the question. Commissioner Weber said she had a concern, as to whether the Operator was in favor of it. Chris Hart said they saw no down side and thought the operation would benefit from multiple engines. Mike Tackett said this offer came about through discussions with the Foundation. Chairman again called the question and the motion carried and was so ordered.

Ugh. What a murky mess. Sounds like somebody (FRSL?) should file a lawsuit to establish quiet title to the locomotive. Of course, FRSL would need to get themselves reinstated with the Cal. Sec. State. They probably forgot to fill out their annual reports. Until they get "unsuspended", they can't sue anybody and can't defend themselves in lawsuits. Heck, they probably don't have the legal capacity to even enter into enforceable contracts with anybody.

I thought the DMV handled locomotive "titles," right next to the mobile home window ;>) Seriously, since it's not real property wouldn't it be a little more complicated than that?

For those folks unfamiliar with this locomotive here is a photo of the engine that is the subject of the discussion above.

Martin

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I never realized that it's identical to McCloud River 8 & 9.

Clearing title to a locomotive is more complicated in that, unlike with real property, you cannot get a litigation guarantee from a title company that tells you who to sue and that will pay you damages in the event that somebody later comes out of the woodwork and makes a valid claim to title. Regardless, you could easily spend $50k getting a court to issue a judgment that says you own the locomotive.

The problem with volunteer non-profits is often that they go dormant/inactive and then somebody can just waltz in and claim the reigns of power and starting taking charge and leasing or selling its collections. When the dormant "life" or "founding" members decide to become active again, the fireworks can really start going off and it gets messy if they don't agree on things. Hopefully that's not the case with FRLS. One of their members really should contact the Sec. of State and get them back in the good graces of the law. It's probably just a matter of filling out some forms.