Steam & Excursion > 4449/844 whistle differences

It's said 4449, 844, and 3985 are all equipped with the same Hancock 3-chime; I can hear the similarity in theory, but why is it the UP whistles sound clear and full, while the Daylight's is hoarse and raunchy-sounding? 4449's also sounds a major chord, while the UP's sound minor. So are they REALLY the same model whistle after all? Thanks, Kurt.

UP's engines use superheated steam for the whistles. Does 4449? If not, that alone would make a difference along with different boiler pressure.

I believe boiler pressure is your difference here.

Thought they all carried 300 lbs.

The reason the UP engines sometimes sound a minor chord is because Steve Lee has an Illinois Central whistle he like to put on there. Another reason for the differences is that the 4449's whistle is tucked down inside the cowling. Also, steam is abrasive and cuts away the arch of the whistle. Over time, this changes both the mouth cutup and the chamber lengths.

Hey crackerjack, It seems to me that the reason the 4449's whistle is differant is because it came off of a "Yellowstone". I've talked to Doyle a few times about trying to get the whistle off the 4460 in St.Louie and was told "Why?...It's got a perfectly good whistle on it!" That's as far as I got with that subject...Pat

patd3985 Wrote:
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> Hey crackerjack, It seems to me that the reason
> the 4449's whistle is differant is because it came
> off of a "Yellowstone".

What Yellowstone? The 4449 Used to have a Hancock off of an NP challenger? Anyway, a frequency analysis of the 4449's whistle shows that it is blowing the same notes as a Hancock (B, D# F#), whether it is or not.

crackerjackhoghead Wrote:
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> The reason the UP engines sometimes sound a minor
> chord is because Steve Lee has an Illinois Central
> whistle he like to put on there. Another reason
> for the differences is that the 4449's whistle is
> tucked down inside the cowling. Also, steam is
> abrasive and cuts away the arch of the whistle.
> Over time, this changes both the mouth cutup and
> the chamber lengths.

I also heard that you can adjust the sound of the whistle by adjusting the nuts on top of the whistle and raising the chambers up or down. Is this correct?

Tim Stricker
Redding/Chico, CA

yes,I think so,I watched Doyle and Dick Yeager adjusting the tone of the whistle on the 49 a few years back in the roundhouse at Portland and was told it is a delicate process. I don't know, but it seemed so to me, just watching them...Pat

Yes, by raising the chime slightly with different thickness shims (thin flat washers, if you will) the sound will change. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. Many times simply rotating the chime will make a change.

Thanx Lil' Buddy! It's amazing to hear all the differant info available out there...Pat

Here is the whole truth on the Daylights coming into Glendale Station, CA.
They never used a whistle only their air horn.
I along with my family which dad was a SP engineer lived about 100 yards from the three tracks going into Taylor Yard.

Never knew that the 4449 had a whistle until I heard it in Skykomish, WA in the mid 70s'.
It may not have been the one that is currently on the 4449, but it was a steam whistle.

Brought this subject up to Doyle many times and he advise me that it was his engine and he will run
it his way. I really don't agree, but it is his and the city of Portland's engine.
Denny

vcrdenny Wrote:
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> Here is the whole truth on the Daylights coming
> into Glendale Station, CA.
> They never used a whistle only their air horn.

The rules at the time indicated that, on locomotives equipped with air horns, the horn was to be used for grade crossings and to warn the public. The whistle was only to be used for signaling among crew members and other trains.

I have seen SP Common Standard whistle drawings that call for the tallest/longest chamber of the whistle to be mounted facing towards the cab of the locomotive.

Does anyone out there know way this particular standard would be observed?

With the case of a whistle of a GS class locomotive with the whistle mounted on top of the boiler buried in the whistle trap of the skyline casing, how would the longest chamber be best aligned for optimum sound?

crackerjackhoghead Wrote:
> Another reason
> for the differences is that the 4449's whistle is
> tucked down inside the cowling.

Not true. The 4449's whistle is next to the stack and not tucked down at all.

DaylightGS-4 Wrote:
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> I have seen SP Common Standard whistle drawings
> that call for the tallest/longest chamber of the
> whistle to be mounted facing towards the cab of
> the locomotive.
>
> Does anyone out there know way this particular
> standard would be observed?
>

This was done to be easier on the crews ears, not for better performance of the whistle.

12tonMack Wrote:
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> crackerjackhoghead Wrote:
> > Another reason
> > for the differences is that the 4449's whistle
> is
> > tucked down inside the cowling.
>
> Not true. The 4449's whistle is next to the stack
> and not tucked down at all.

crackerjackhoghead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 12tonMack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > crackerjackhoghead Wrote:
> > > Another reason
> > > for the differences is that the 4449's
> whistle
> > is
> > > tucked down inside the cowling.
> >
> > Not true. The 4449's whistle is next to the
> stack
> > and not tucked down at all.

They added a second whistle outlet up near the stack but I believe the original location is farther back in the cowling.

There are two whistle mount locations on the 4449 today, one on the right and left side of the stack. If there was a mounting somewhere else it isn't used and hasn't been in many years.

Does superheated steam really make a difference? I've heard good reason for it making a one and good reasons for it not to matter.
The one that makes the most sense is pressure is the most important fracture.