Steam & Excursion > Student Engineer Instructions on coupling

Need some advice on starting a program for teaching switching with a steam engine. The student engineers already know the basics of the steam engine and have run and stop a train on the main line. Now they need to learn how to couple up to a car. This will be in closed museum yard with no other trains or public involved. Other students will act as brakemen with the qualified instructors. What progression would you use?

Does this sound good?

Practice stopping the light engine at a given ground marker....Sign post, cone whatever. Engineer works on use of throttle, reverser and engine brake.

Use a student brakeman to guide to a stop at variable locations. Perhaps one brakeman at each end of the track.

Finally couple to a real car. Uncouple and do it again several times.

Use a small string of cars to stop, only now use train brake as needed supplemented with engine brake as appropriate.

Practice coupling string of cars to standing car.

Practice coupling string of cars to another string of cars.

All movements should be practiced in both forward and reverse conditions.

Tom

Tom, it's really not that difficult and the big thing is getting a feel for where the car is in relation
to the length of the tender. That last couple feet is the trick and once you master it, it's like riding
a bike.

Alot of times, if the sun is right, use the shadows to rough gauge the distance. But as mentioned before....its really not that hard. Also when getting close, look at the ground to measure your ground speed.

"Use a student brakeman to guide to a stop at variable locations."

I think the safer course would be to have a more experienced person controlling the move, not a Student Brakeman even if he is under the watchful eye of someone more experienced. Hope this makes sense. Nothing worse than someone trying to learn how to be a Conductor controlling moves for someone learning to be an Engineer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/11 13:25 by LIL_BUDDY.

Know where your water is.

Green engineers tend to carry their water high, and when switching, coupling or making other close spotting moves if you are working against your independent and grab a handful of throttle you can lift water which will vaporize immediately in the dry pipe/superheater and cause the engine to unexpectedly lurch ahead!

Also, keeping the cylinder cocks open helps give better control, but it may obstruct visibility.

Moving over to steam after diesel training you will find that a steam engine is more responsive - no waiting for the engine to load. You pull the throttle, and you've got steam NOW.

Keep it slow and easy, you'll do fine.

-Larry Doyle



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/11 13:36 by LarryDoyle.

Hi, Tom,

Where is your 'operation', city, state, etc.?
I commend you for starting out on the right foot when doing training and making moves.


I enjoyed your proposed sequence of training.

I would add that there be some solid ground rules about engine movements in and around yards and standing equipment.
Important practices to include in your training:

(NOTE --- All cars, or 'cuts' of cars should be chocked and hand brakes set before coupling into, and when leaving the cars standing alone).

1: Have a clear understanding between the engine operator and ONE designated 'ground person' --- the engine ONLY moves under the direction and 'eyes' of the
safety person on the ground (or under the guidance of radio communications). It must be the organization's published policy that the ground person, trainman, is
the undisputed person in charge of the planned moves. All other persons who want to modify the intended moves MUST only do so through
the designated person in charge of the movements.

2: The trainman and the operator MUST agree on the commands related to 'forwards' and 'backwards', the convention can be 'compass points' Like: "Move North, 2 car
lengths, Mike", or "Come East, 3 car lengths, Mike, to a coupling" (to car or cars). If its CLEAR that "Come Ahead" means move in the direction of the engine's forward
facing headlight its OK to use that terminology -- make sure all parties understand the names to be used when giving directions.

3: The two people making the move, or others directly involved in the move, should talk about the ALL the intended moves to be made and what will be the END of the moves
session --- lunch, phone calls, visiting the customers and getting clarifications, etc. Each move, and the sequence, must be understood by all parties...any changes
in the agreed sequence should be a reason to stop the engine, and the movement, and converse about the change(s) to be made.

4: An understanding that the engine moves ONLY at the instructions of the ground person,--- BUT anyone can order a movement stopped AT ANY TIME.
For Safety purposes, the locomotive operator must take the signals only from one person, or a designated substitute (for a portion of the move, if needed).
You must train ALL folks around the movement to avoid interfering with the communications link-up with the operator and the 'ground person' -- except
in the case of a clear and demonstrable emergency. Persons not involved in the move must be instructed to NOT distract the parties making the move -- or else
the movements will be STOPPED during the distraction!

5. If using hand signals, the locomotive operator must be trained to STOP the movement whenever he loses sight of the ground person or the signals are
are ambiguous or not clear. A sad event from Germany, last year, cost the life of a museum volunteer when he walked through the clouds of steam and in front of a
moving engine, -- the volunteer was run over and killed by the slow moving locomotive. I suspect that the engine driver FAILED TO STOP WHEN S/He
could not see the track ahead because of the billowing steam ---- Your operators MUST STOP if ever they cannot see the clear path ahead (curves, steam, freight cars,
etc. And proceed only under the watchful eyes of the person on the ground --- the ground person must see that the way is clear and s/he must maintain eye contact
with the driver while the moves are being made.

6. If using radios, or cell phones, do not use police '10-codes', do not use CB/Truckers jargon ('Good-Buddy', etc.) use only clear English language word for
communications. It is a good practice for the train operator to repeat what s/he heard before beginning the intended move, and, also, to verbally confirm the original
command.

7: If operating a steam locomotive, have the combustioneer (fireman) keep boiler pressure at 90% of operating pressure and solid half glass of water in the boiler during
the switching moves. The strong boiler pressure will ensure that the engine's air brake compressor is strong and that the independent brake cylinder pressures are
immediate! The engines brakes must respond immediately! Ensure the sanders are all working, do your daily leakage tests according to the book.

8: Use every opportunity as a teaching moment, have clear and open discussions about ANY confusing aspects of train air brakes, train movements or car brakes, etc.
the move is underway.

There is SO much more to a good operations training program, but I feel that these are the key points to making safe moves.


You can contact me any time at wcamp91543@aol.com

Wes Camp

Wes thank you for some great advice, especially noteworthy are your comments regarding responding to ground signals and knowing WHO IS IN CHARGE. We will also take heed to losing sight to a switchman/brakeman and stopping the locomotive.

I am not at liberty to speak to the location at this time as it is still in the planning stage.

Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the reply!

I respect your sensitivity to about telling too much in a public forum.

Best of luck as you grow your project.

Reach me by e-mail if you'd like some candid support and honest advice as you develop your training program.
Reach out to me if I can be of help, or explain puzzling RR practices or 'mechanics'.

Wes Camp
Fairfax, Va.

One thing I missed. Everyone should agree as to what a car length is! I've had a couple of instances of 3 cars 1522, 2 cars 1522,STOP,WHAM! All in about 3 seconds at a crawling speed.
Don't forget to slack em.

That's why I think hand signals are much better than radio in switching.

The origin of the radio lingo: "That'll DO!" ----- CRASH!

WES.

They have to get the feeling between steam and diesel. Steam is different with every engine. Some respond right away, some take a bit to build pressure. Always have your jam set to control the move if you can. Try a couple of starts and stops with the engine first to see how it reacts.

Oh, Frisco, That's "Stretch Em".


Nudge

One helpful thing to try with new hoggers are a few "homemade" signals that have become standard practice for some...

When bringing down to a coupling, continue giving the hand signals until you're about 5-6 feet out. Then, put both arms out to your side when the couplers are about that distance apart, slowly bringing his hands together above his head, matching the speed of the couplers coming together, hands joining above your head right when the coupling is made. Doing so helps give the engineer a good idea as to how far he really is from the joint instead of continually seeing the traditional forward/back signals. You can then give a "stretch em" signal by your two hands grasping each other like interlocked couplers. If the pin didn't drop, or you need to bunch the slack, you can give a "bump" signal by banging your two fists together.

-Eric

On the SP it took one hand. "Come to me" or "Go away from me. The thumb was a pin sign.

Nudge

I was thinking about uncoupling with the slack em. Of course you'd stretch after making the joint to see if it holds.
One of the cars that went with us most of the time, the Choteau Club had some kind of contrary coupler on it and it took me 6 or 8 hard couplings down in Haslet,TX to finally get all the planets aligned.

2 more points.. about coupling

A. There is a difference between freight and passenger switching/coupling movements: Freight car handling often brings the couplers right together, without stopping.
A common practice with passenger cars, for safety reasons of occupied equipment, is for the ground person to bring the moving equipment (loco or combination of cars &
loco)SLOWLY to a complete STOP about 10 t0 15 feet apart, then after the the equipment has stopped, proceed to make the coupling, stretch 'em and couple the air up and
release the hand brakes on the standing equipment.

B. Hand signals, for close-by movements (some distant operations may require radio/telecom equipment), become a LANGUAGE of their own.
The advantage is, as noted by others earlier, that the speed of the hand movements can be 'modulated' to match the desired speed wanted by the ground signal-giver.
There are many hand signals to communicate more that just forward, reverse and STOP. Some hand signals indicated an industry to be switched, when its time to go
eat, go for loco water, etc. The language becomes easier as the train crews become more familiar with each other and the signals -- also there are regional
nuances and dialects of hand signal language. However, the three commands for forward, reverse and STOP remain UNIVERSAL in the industry (at least in the U.S.ofA!)

Practice giving clear, distinct and unambiguous hand signals at a distance, at night (using lights), in 'relaying' mode and change out locations with the engine
operator to get a sense of the view from the cab, etc. (however do not attempt to operate the loco if you have not been trained to do so!).
The engine drivers also get a 'enlightening view' from the ground, too.

When practiced and casual, hand signals become a quicker way to give directions than can be conveyed over the radio. Make it fun; but, when used well, hand signals
become the safest form of communicating desired train movements.

Remember to never start a move until you are sure everyone is in the clear!

Wes Camp1472

Tominde Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Need some advice on starting a program for
> teaching switching with a steam engine. The
> student engineers already know the basics of the
> steam engine and have run and stop a train on the
> main line. Now they need to learn how to couple
> up to a car. This will be in closed museum yard
> with no other trains or public involved. Other
> students will act as brakemen with the qualified
> instructors. What progression would you use?
>
> Does this sound good?
>
> Practice stopping the light engine at a given
> ground marker....Sign post, cone whatever.
> Engineer works on use of throttle, reverser and
> engine brake.
>
> Use a student brakeman to guide to a stop at
> variable locations. Perhaps one brakeman at each
> end of the track.
>
> Finally couple to a real car. Uncouple and do it
> again several times.
>
> Use a small string of cars to stop, only now use
> train brake as needed supplemented with engine
> brake as appropriate.
>
> Practice coupling string of cars to standing car.
>
> Practice coupling string of cars to another string
> of cars.
>
> All movements should be practiced in both forward
> and reverse conditions.
>
> Tom


Try doing stopping next to a fixed object at various speeds and only being allowed to apply certain amounts of brake. Have an experienced engineer couple up to a bunch of cars, repeat process with the student engineer though this time he gets to use locomotive brakes only at various speeds. Example. The train can go from 10 mph to applying brakes, but can't slow using brakes prior to a final "stopping" application. Repeat using train brakes only, etc. until the student engineer gets the feel for the different types, speeds, etc of applications. This is what I do to train my engineers and also RCO operators. We usually spend 1-2 hours doing this until they are satisfied and I am satisfied they can stop. Also, go in and tie 25% to 50% handbrakes after coupling so the student engineer can feel the difference of having some handbrakes on.

Regarding the "safety stop" for passenger equipment, rule 7.9 in the GCOR requires the stop be made "approximately 50 feet before the coupling is made"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/11 08:36 by ssw.

LIL_BUDDY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Use a student brakeman to guide to a stop at
> variable locations."
>
> I think the safer course would be to have a more
> experienced person controlling the move, not a
> Student Brakeman even if he is under the watchful
> eye of someone more experienced. Hope this makes
> sense. Nothing worse than someone trying to learn
> how to be a Conductor controlling moves for
> someone learning to be an Engineer.

I would have to second this opinion. Don't try to mix student classes together. From a safety standpoint, do ONLY a student brakeman class with experienced engine crews, or ONLY a student engineer class with an experienced fireman and ground crew. By throwing too many students into the mix, you dramatically increase the chance of something going wrong. If the student engineer has no experience switching, they are going to need a ground crew whose ability to give clear hand signals, or make quick decisions based on what's going on, is almost second nature. Even just a second or two of second guessing on the ground crew's part can end up in damaged or derailed equipment.

Once a student engineer has exhibited an acceptable degree of skill in switching, would I then introduce them to student brakemen who don't have a lot of experience directing yard moves. Even in "real world" (for lack of a better term) situations on common carrier railroads who may have dozens of trainees of multiple crafts, basic yard move skills for trainmen are taught in settings apart from revenue operations. It is only after the student brakeman/conductor has achieved an acceptable level of competency in making moves, that they are introduced to "real time" operations where a student engineer might come into play. Most Class 1's have a training center the serves this purpose. When I hired on, our trainers took us to a little-used yard and taught us to direct ground moves in an isolated setting with experienced instructors at the throttle of the locomotive.

All of the above are based on the assumption that you are talking about personnel you are training as part of your museum's operating staff. I would NOT do any of the above with an "engineer for a day" program, where you can't pre-screen candidates before throwing them into tasks where the most rail-employee related fatalities and serious injuries occur.

It is also worth mentioning that most of the big RR's train their engineers in the opposite order. They work on yard and switching moves BEFORE taking them out on the main line. Doing it main line first is like taking someoe who has never been behind the wheel of a car, and throwing them out on a busy interstate during rush hour with no basic instruction. You have to get a feel for the basics before you move on to the more skill related tasks involving grades, judging decceleration and stopping distances, slack management, etc.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/11 13:05 by bioyans.

Not quite on the UP, they've had engineer's classes that took a very different approach than starting out
with yard time. There are yard jobs that a road engineer could barely hold in some terminals. There were
guys who'd been promoted from conductor with six months road service before they ever saw the simulator.
Any quite a few of the student engineers never saw any yard service, which was pretty funny in some
cases when the YM, oops MTO, ahd to talk them into a yard. Necessity breeds invention, also 90 day
wonders.