Steam & Excursion > 844 on the Chester Sub

As a follow-up to Thursday's chase, I decided to try another on Saturday. Joined my my friend and fellow TO-er MAP, we took off after it across the JB Bridge about the time it was pulling into Dupo, with another train crew telling the 844's crew that people were all over the place, stacking quarters on the railhead everywhere.... Only managed a few shots for all the trouble, and could've fried eggs on my bald head today. Chase traffic was much heavier today, and you could see some of the crazies out creating havoc, doing dangerous things to get a head of the game. Although I used to subscribe to the theory of getting as many shots as possible, I like the leisurely approach with decent photographic results, quality over quantity. Also rather annoyed at the lack of etiquette with some photographers, and worse, some people in vans and trucks who just ran up and pulled into your shots at the last second. Fortunately, I managed to keep them out of my shots, One thing if they were there first, but the last second jumping in front is annoying...That's a topic for another day, though...

In any case, here are the rather non-descript photos from today's efforts.

1. Fountain, IL - I seem to migrate here every time there is steam on the Chester Sub...
2. Reilly Lake, IL - Nothing special here, although we were bummed to discover that the road was cosed just south of here due to flooding. Caused us to retrace our steps back out of here, and lose precious time. We had the opportunity to shoot it on several other occasions, but the thought of getting stuck in the foamer crowd wasn't pleasant, so we just hightailed it to Rockview Jct and the BNSF connection track...
3. Rockview (Chaffee), MO rounding the corner on the connection track, momentarily, pausing to get the BNSF pilot on board and fire up the ditchlights, he then shoved on the BNSF all the way back to Cape..

Rick

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1. Shoving up the BNSF to Cap Girardeau.
2. Mandatory Crew shot, the forgotten ones. Have to admit though, weird not seeing Steve Lee

Rick

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You did good! thanks for posting these fine shots.
Roger Beckett

Great shots. Were they moving at track speed, or were they still nursing that right main pin they had to re-brass at Kansas City?

Brian Black
Retired SP/UP Conductor
Castle Rock, CO

Had a moment not long ago to spend some time with the new Supt. who replaced Mr. Lee. He is as enthusiastic if not more about the preserving the UP Heritage fleet. He stated most of the resistance comes from individual service units as it "potentially" interrupts daily operations (which I didn't get). During the course of our conversation, other railfans showed up at the same time as the E units were being prepared for the Super Bowl in Council Bluffs. He invited all to take as many photos as the pleased provided a little common sense was used.

He's good PR and an overall nice guy.

I can see Lee's legacy to the steam program live but this guy will take it just as far if not further.

Axy

We were going 50+ at times according to the detectors. The kept going off saying we had a hot bearing on axle 6.

tehachcond Wrote:
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> Great shots. Were they moving at track speed, or
> were they still nursing that right main pin they
> had to re-brass at Kansas City?
>
> Brian Black
> Retired SP/UP Conductor
> Castle Rock, CO

Michael Gmoser
Saint Louis, MO



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/11 09:49 by theirishlion.

Wonderful photos and commentary. Thanks!

Steve Mitchell
http://www.yardgoatimages.com

Great photos...I understand what you're stating with the photographers...but, the crowds were so large...much larger than when UP 3985 came through...so it really can't be helped. You just have to go with the "flow"...

Thomas Austin
Centralia, IL
Joppa Sub Layout Site

theirishlion Wrote:
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> We were going 50+ at times according to the
> detectors. The kept going off saying we had a hot
> bearing on axle 6.
>
> tehachcond Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Great shots. Were they moving at track speed,
> or
> > were they still nursing that right main pin
> they
> > had to re-brass at Kansas City?
> >
> > Brian Black
> > Retired SP/UP Conductor
> > Castle Rock, CO

It could have been a hot bearing or it could have been the firebox setting off the detector. The latter happened so often that UP has a special rule in the rulebook that exempts the steam locomtotives from having to stop if they trip a hotbox detector. Some years back I was on a UP excursion with 3985. We would trip every hotbox detector. After about 4 of these, the dispatcher threw a red block up so close to the train that Steve Lee almost had to put the train into emergency to stop short of running the red block, causing lots of spilled food and drinks, and jostling the passengers up pretty well (as well as some high-ranking UP officials riding the train). He called the dispatcher and asked why the dispatcher had thrown up a red block so abruptly in front of the train. The Dispatcher tersely replied, "Well, you've set off four hotbox detectors and you didn't stop." Steve Lee was furious. He quoted the special rule in the rulebook to the dispatcher, throwing in some extra "language" not usually permitted over the radio. Within moments, Steve had a green signal, and we saw nothing else but green for the rest of the day--and we probably set off 10 more detectors. On 844, axle 6 would be the axle right ahead of the firebox.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/11 11:25 by WW.

B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L PHOTOS!

I especially love the (In the Cab) Photo, of Ed Dickens, on the right, as the Engineer! I don't know the other Gentleman's Name, on the left of Ed. Sorry...

Very Nice Work..

Thank You for sharing, Sir.*

VERNON HARRISON
LA TOUR, MISSOURI

Cool shots. Pretty weird seeing the train shove back all the way into Cape. Never thought I'd see a UP steamer in freaking Cape Girardeau.

Pump

There has to be more to that story ......

Signals have to time out, and (correct me if I'm wrong) a dispatcher has to confirm with the crew of his intent to take down a signal in front of a train when the train is in the block(s) affected.

And, why would the dispatcher wait until the *fourth* one before doing something ?

Bill Miller
Galt, ON



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/11 12:37 by CCMF.

ricky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Although I used to subscribe to the theory of
> getting as many shots as possible, I like the
> leisurely approach with decent photographic
> results, quality over quantity.

> ...then shoved on the BNSF all the
> way back to Cape..
>
> Rick

Sorry we didn't, at least officially, meet up.

Great shots, not a one back lit. Not bad for a
leisurely approach! Traveling from Philly, I was
hoping against hope for more then 2 or three. The
initial trek from Saint Louis to Dupo, I think,
through a bunch of chasers off but the whistle
stops were a huge plus, for chasers and publicity
for UP as well.

I lost sight of the tracks past Ware, IL. That's
a wicket shot at the junction. Were there photo
ops at Cape Girardeau?

/Mitch

Well, for quite some time, UP has had the policy of letting steam trains by detectors, because the firebox heat almost always sets them off. As noted, there is also a special instruction addressing that. That being said, its really tough to say where the miscommunication came from. Generally, in my past experiences, anyway, the crew of the train will announce over the radio that they have caused a hotbox, and then quote the special instruction relieving them of stopping. Of course it must be remembered that a hotbox anywhere other than an expected axle or general location, should stop.

As for the signals, yes, the signals will run their time, BUT, as soon as the DS invokes a set to stop action, the signal will drop to red. The running time is there to prevent a signal or switch from being re-lined in such a way as to cause a dangerous situation, like reversing a switch into a conflicting move or in such a way that the train is still moving too fast that an alternate route will derail the train (there are plenty more examples) As for asking the crew permission to take down a signal, generally, yes they do, however, if I'm not mistaken, if the DS feels that leaving the signal lined creates a potentially dangerous situation, he can drop the signal when necessary. Its certainly not recommended,but since the given interlocked signal is protecting the move of the train that gets the dropped signal in his face, he still would be protected against opposing moves until the signal ran-time. Also, in cases such as this, crews are generally instructed to bring their trains to a safe, controlled stop, rather than dumping the air.

So there is still some mystery, but where the mystery actually plays out is an unknown quantity.

Rick N


CCMF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There has to be more to that story ......
>
> Signals have to time out, and (correct me if I'm
> wrong) a dispatcher has to confirm with the crew
> of his intent to take down a signal in front of a
> train when the train is in the block(s) affected.
>
> And, why would the dispatcher wait until the
> *fourth* one before doing something ?

Yes it is a shame. I actually ran across a few friends I don't see much anymore, and saw a bunch of faces I recognize, but don't have name for...

The leisurely approach was almost too leisurely. We decided to really push ahead after Gorham, then realized we had gone so far that any shot we took where we finally stopped (near a place just north of McClure) might jeopardize the shots at Rockview. We didn't anticipate the meet and I guess partial crew change at Illmo, then a relatively long delay at Rockview caused by a couple of UP EB's then a BNSF SB. We should've turned back around when I finally realized that the 844 'd time at Wolf Lake and Ware made for really slow going for the train. But from past experiences with 3985 and SSW 819, we decided the better part of valor was staying out of the nutty crowd chasing the train. In a ways, I regret it, but even so, by the time the train left Rockview shoving back to Cape, I was beat and melting (although seeing that I'm of the rotund build, sweating a little was good), and I wasn't looking forward to the 2 hour drive home, so we skipped going to Cape to get any more shots. I had wanted to head into the souvenir car to replace a shirt I had inadvertently destroyed in a terrible washing machine accident with a little bleach involved, but was just too tired to mess with it...

So did you just decide to turn around at Ware, and head back (presumably for a flight), or were you unfamiliar with the territory enough not to press on?

Take Care, Perhaps our paths will cross again...

Rick
Hillsboro, MO

Mgoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry we didn't, at least officially, meet up.
>
> Great shots, not a one back lit. Not bad for a
> leisurely approach! Traveling from Philly, I was
>
> hoping against hope for more then 2 or three. The
>
> initial trek from Saint Louis to Dupo, I think,
> through a bunch of chasers off but the whistle
> stops were a huge plus, for chasers and publicity
>
> for UP as well.
>
> I lost sight of the tracks past Ware, IL. That's
>
> a wicket shot at the junction. Were there photo
> ops at Cape Girardeau?
>
> /Mitch

CCMF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There has to be more to that story ......
>
> Signals have to time out, and (correct me if I'm
> wrong) a dispatcher has to confirm with the crew
> of his intent to take down a signal in front of a
> train when the train is in the block(s) affected.
>
> And, why would the dispatcher wait until the
> *fourth* one before doing something ?

When I said "almost immediately," it was the time necessary for the signal to time out. As to "a dispatcher has to confirm with the crew of his intent to take down a signal in front of a train when the train is in the block(s) affected," that is the normal procedure, but after Steve Lee's tongue-lashing of the dispatcher, I didn't hear any more conversation on the radio before the signal displayed green. As to why the dispatcher waited to throw up a red signal, and then did so with minimal warning, I don't have an answer. What I do know is that the steam train movement that day was known to just about everybody, so there was likely no way that the dispatcher could have thought that it was just some freight train setting off the detectors. That was one of the reasons that Mr. Lee was so upset about the incident.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/11 07:50 by WW.

ricky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> So did you just decide to turn around at Ware, and
> head back (presumably for a flight), or were you
> unfamiliar with the territory enough not to press
> on?

I must be getting old, flying into St Louis in part
to chase UP #844 but not staying to the end!

I did race ahead of the train but lost sight of the
track and chase pack. Before long, I was in Cape
Girardeau but didn't see a nicely lit photo op, nor
was I able to figure out just how the train was
going to magically appear. A scout trip both North
and South past closed roads and non-existent roads
that my GPS routed me caused an early departure.

Still, it seemed a nice enough place and I was only
20 minutes into my return trip that I wished I had
stayed.

/Mitch