Steam & Excursion > Iowa Interstate Steam question

Why did the Iowa Interstate buy a Chinese steam engine? Or a steam engine at all for that matter? Excursions, business trains, public relations?

I'm not so sure the Iowa Interstate RR actually DID purchase two Chinese 2-10-2 steam locomotives. I believe it was Mr. Posner, who may be the owner of the Iowa Interstate RR, who actually owns the two steam locomotives. Maybe, like Jerry J. Jacobson, over in Ohio, Mr. Posner really likes steam locomotives, and has the wherewithal to REALLY enjoy his hobby.

Remember that Henry Posner (I seem to recall a third party [Railpower International?] being involved too but forget the details) bought the engines, not Iowa Interstate. Rest assured that Iowa Interstate Railroad had no interest in importing Chinese steam engines.

I believe that Mr. Posner had prior interest in and enthusiasm for Chinese steam, and wanted to preserve some examples before/if they all got scrapped in China, plus it was a good, economically sound way to acquire ready to run steam power.

Iowa Interstate being Railroad Development Corporation's largest US holding, that was the natural landing place for them, considered to be incredibly good fortune by us long time IAIS fans. I suspect that much of IAIS management would've been just as happy if they'd never showed up, but all bets are off when the Chairman is an unapologetic railfan.

Andy

AndyBrown Wrote:
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> Remember that Henry Posner (I seem to recall a
> third party being involved too but forget the
> details) bought the engines, not Iowa Interstate.
> Rest assured that Iowa Interstate Railroad had no
> interest in importing Chinese steam engines.

I believe the company was Multipower International out of New Jersy, and that acted as agents.

Cheers,
Jack

If I recall correctly, the QJ's were going to be sold off to a tourist line after their U.S. debut in September '06. Guess Mr. Posner fell in love with them and decided to keep them. :)

That's a good thing, though. The QJ's have a mainline to sprint on, and the Iowa Interstate has a pair of goodwill ambassadors (and lots and lots of public relation moneybags, haha!).

On a somewhat related note, Train Festival looks like it was a huge success! Couldn't make it, but it looks like it was the steam extravaganza of the year! Plus, I like the 6988's new American look. Chinese steam fans shouldn't complain; after all, they still got 7081, which looks good, too.

Keep on steamin'!
Mark H.

RRDC - IAIS's parent company, run by none other than Henry Posner III and a couple others - actually purchased them. As has been mentioned, this was done with Multipower International acting as the agent. The idea was to see if there was a market with US/Canada tourist lines for used Chinese steam, since there were plentiful deadlines in China at the time that could be had for very reasonable prices when compared to refurbishing an American teakettle. The concept wasn't new - the Boone & Scenic Valley bought a brand new JS class years ago for the very same reason. The only taker on QJs was a single unit sold to RJ Corman.

Of course, I suspect HP3 fully intended all along to keep these two as showpieces for RRDC and IAIS. The great irony of it all is that for a couple years, these steamers were Iowa Interstate's most modern power (built 1985 and 1986, as opposed to 1978 for the SD38-2s). Then somebody went and ordered a dozen GEVOs, just to ruin the joke. :)

NDHolmes Wrote:
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> The idea was to see if there was a
> market with US/Canada tourist lines for used
> Chinese steam....... Of course, I suspect HP3 fully intended all along
> to keep these two as showpieces for RRDC and IAIS.

I've kind of suspected that too Nathan. I always thought the whole "test the market" premise sounded a little hokey, like maybe that's what he told his wife to get her to go along with the idea.

Andy

Henry's wife is way too tough a cookie to be fooled by that sort of talk. I worked with Henry on the Rock Island in the summer of 1976, when he was at Princeton and I was in grad school at Northwestern. He handed out business cards describing himself as a "ferroequinologist".

My take on the QJs is that Henry went to China a few years back to photograph them on Jing Peng Pass, fell in love, and bought two of them very cheaply out of a dead line. He may have thought to run them for a while and then resell them to some tourist line, but I think he likes having them. He has told me, though, that just firing one up and taking it out of the storage shed costs $25,0000. Clearly, he and RDC have more financial resources than I do.

NDHolmes Wrote:
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> Of course, I suspect HP3 fully intended all along
> to keep these two as showpieces for RRDC and IAIS.

RRDC brought these first two over, and had options on 3-5 more. Mr. Posner may have intended to keep one eventually, but it would have been the LAST one, not the first one.

RRDC actively tried to sell them, and my impression is that Henry was genuinely surprised by the lack of interest.

After the conclusion of the photo special that Jim Gunning and Bill Raia organized in 2007 (which were operated under very generous financial terms), Henry's comment to me was along the lines of "now we've got to figure out how to do this and make some money." Unfortunately, that has proven rather difficult.

JAC

John,

That last statement doesn't really surprise me. I wouldn't drive 50 miles to watch one of those things go past! In China,,,,,that would have been different.

> After the conclusion of the photo special that Jim
> Gunning and Bill Raia organized in 2007 (which
> were operated under very generous financial
> terms), Henry's comment to me was along the lines
> of "now we've got to figure out how to do this and
> make some money." Unfortunately, that has proven
> rather difficult.
>
> JAC


Fortunately, Henry Posner also knows that the QJ's can add value to his railroads by creating something other than a profit.
Just as the UP uses it's steam program as a marketing tool, Henry has been using his engines as a public relations tool for the many communities along his line, currently providing steam powered trains mostly for volunteer fire departments to raise money for more equipment, and to build good relations with these communities in the process. At all these fund raising events that I have been involved in, I have met virtually no disappointed patrons and hundreds of very appreciative people who live along the main line. Having appreciative neighbors can be priceless.

Comparing a Chinese 2-10-2 to the UP's FEF-3 #844 is NOT a fair comparison! The 844 is probably the ONLY steam locomotive in the world that has never been stricken from the "active roster", and I know for sure that is true for the entire North American Continent.

People come from literally all over the world to see the likes of 844, 3985, and especially SP4449, in operation. All three locomotives are significant examples of American Railroad engineering accomplishments, and what made this country the greatest country on the planet. Those Chinese 2-10-2s are an example of Chinese coping a USSR design and nothing else.

HotWater Wrote:
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> Comparing a Chinese 2-10-2 to the UP's FEF-3 #844
> is NOT a fair comparison!

Jack,
I totally agree with you, that is NOT a fair comparison. That's why I wonder why you compare them. I reread my post and found no mention of any specific locomotives. I was attempting to point out that the use of heritage steam locomotives has a value other than making money for the railroad. I used the UP steam program as an analogy because it has long been clearly seen, and publicly expressed, as a marketing tool. To avoid the confusion, I will omit the UP program entirely, and say that the heritage programs of the Canadian Pacific with the 2816, the Canadian National with 6060 a while back, C&NW 1385 on the Chicago and North Western back in the 80's, The 611 and 1218 on the Norfolk Southern, 261,1522,4449, 3751 on the BNSF Employees Specials etc, all had some value that those railroads deemed important to help achieve its mission statement, be it public relations, good will, marketing, or just giving back to its employees and customers and neighbors, something of value.

HotWater Wrote:
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> Comparing a Chinese 2-10-2 to the UP's FEF-3 #844
> is NOT a fair comparison! The 844 is probably the
> ONLY steam locomotive in the world that has never
> been stricken from the "active roster", and I know
> for sure that is true for the entire North
> American Continent.
>
> People come from literally all over the world to
> see the likes of 844, 3985, and especially SP4449,
> in operation. All three locomotives are
> significant examples of American Railroad
> engineering accomplishments, and what made this
> country the greatest country on the planet. Those
> Chinese 2-10-2s are an example of Chinese coping a
> USSR design and nothing else.

Wrong HW! They are something else - a steam locomotive. And, except for the select few whiney railfans and a few people who get angry if anything's not built in the USA, nobody cares where they were made. Henry Posner (a great guy, by the way) uses them to establish goodwill in the same way UP uses your beloved 844. The public gets to ooo and aah over steam, IAIS gets some good PR, and we all get to enjoy the pictures. I'm constantly amazed by how seemingly personally insulted people on here are that any steam locomotive would look a little different that what one considers "accepted." How dare they! Not to mention, from what I understand, people also came from all over the world to see the QJ's in action in China, and also to Rock Island for Trainfestival 2011. Two of the main attractions were, ::gasp:: Chinese QJ's! I'd humbly submit that we all need a little culture. Crikey!

Mr. Posner has about as close to a turnkey operation as steam gets. He joked with me once that he was "the Wal-Mart of Steam." Why are people so offended by it? It's not like these new Chinese engines are "taking away business" from UP's steam locomotives or something. As another one of America's great cultural institutions, hip hop music, would say "haters gonna hate!"

Anybody who was at Train Festival had to be impressed by the QJ's. They delivered everything that was asked, on time. The westbound "Amtrak" special on Saturday with 2 idling P42's and 18 or so passenger cars went up the 1% grade through Davenport in a workmanlike manner. Not bad at all.