Steam & Excursion > Any lists of steam locos with short time left?

Are there any on-line lists of locos nearing their 1472 day shutdown? I would think railfans would want to know of and have some advance warning of one of these shut-downs. Personally, for example, I have known about the Shay at Yosemite Mtn Sugarpine RR here in Ca. for many years. I have never driven the 400 miles to ride behind it. If it was nearing a 1472 day shutdown, I would probably go on up there.
I bet news of an impending shutdown could lead to an increase in railfan visits that would be good for a tourist railroad. Comments?

I get your question and yes, it would be nice to see a spread sheet with all that however, I don't know of anyone who has compiled such a document (although the FRA may have one - FOIA candidate?).

I would take absolutely NO opportunity to see an operational steam locomotive for granted. It's quite possible that ANY locomotive that runs out of flue time may not come back. I don't know of any organization which has unlimited funding. During comprehensive inspection, almost anything could be found which would make a return to service unaffordable (for that organization). If there is a steam locomotive running today, you had better go see it. It might not be running tomorrow.

The FRA does not maintain such a list on-line. Each operator knows when their dates are up. Be mindful that just because an engine has a certain date, if problems develop earlier they will likely be taken out of service earlier to prevent larger problems. That occurred with the #1225 in 2009.

Also, the timing of taking an engine out of service can be driven by several factors, such as when you need it back in shape and the time it will take to complete the job. We have the 4449's tubes expiring in June 2013, but we plan to start the job earlier so we have time to have her finished before our next big trip.

In summary, there is no list, and likely there never will be. You just have to keep an eye on boards like this to see if an engine you are interested in will be running in any given year. Many factors can change things. In Jamestown the Sierra #28 has several years left on the tubes, but has been out of service now for a couple years due to firebox problems that arose.

Remember, tomorrow is promised to no one, and that goes for steam locomotives too.

Martin

More factors.....

15 years is the drop-dead date for the removal of tubes so that a thorough interior boiler shell inspection can be made, the ultra-sound testing completed, etc.
1472 'fire' days allows the engine to be operated intermittently during that 15 year period.
1472 divided by 365 equals 4.03 TOTAL 'years' of the boiler operating days --- with a live fire in her belly (any portion of a 'day' counts toward the 1472 and
a 'fire-day' starts at 12:00:01AM and ends at 11:59:59PM).

So, the '15 year' flue removal requirement is largely dependent on the accurate recording/reporting to the FRA of each day's boiler status.
Failure to keep accurate records up-to-date can make the '15 year inspection' requirement fall due immediately (as a consequence of poor record keeping).

However, ACCURATE records can support a operator's formal request for an extension of time (for removal of flues & tubes) from the FRA, beyond the 1472 day
statutory requirement. There are recent several cases where extensions have been granted -- a beneficial reflection on the seriousness that operators
regarded in following the FRA regs, 'to the letter', and effective continuous communication with the FRA to keep them apprised of the operating status of the respective boilers.

Overfire Jets !!

LoggerHogger Wrote:
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> The FRA does not maintain such a list on-line.
>
> Martin

And the FRA does not maintain the list in Washington (although there may be some "courtesy copies). the lists are maintained at the individual FRA Regional Headquarters.

TL

TorchLake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LoggerHogger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The FRA does not maintain such a list on-line.
> >
> > Martin
>
> And the FRA does not maintain the list in
> Washington (although there may be some "courtesy
> copies). the lists are maintained at the
> individual FRA Regional Headquarters.
>
> TL

And they would not be obliged to provide you copies except in the case where someone filed a request via the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). I wouldn't bother them with FOIA requests as I'm sure they have a lot better things to be doing. As stated above (paraphrased) you better get your steam while the gettin's good 'cause you don't know what tomorrow will take away.

Soo Line 2719 is done in July of 2013..

Would there be a way, with modern technology, to adequately inspect without pulling the tubes? First, one would need to design some gear that can get around in there and clean. And then something that can get around the interior circumference and display high quality images. Maybe incorporate ultrasonic measurements to simultaneously scan the entire area, not just thickness at certain points.

YES!!
There are technologies that could be employed...

However, the 'conditions' you're looking for could be covered by inches (feet?) of red mud in the boiler belly.
Getting this accumulation cleaned out and down to almost bare metal is the challenge -- remote reading-wise.
The most reliable way of doing the cleaning is the removal of (enough of...) the flues/tubes so that the cleaning, and the minute inspections, can safely be done

As I've said before, the challenge of the flue/tube removal has little to do with concern for flue condition. The tube's ratio of the diameter to the wall thickness is a low number --meaning that for a given diameter, the wall thickness is VERY thick and substantial. Also, the pressure 'load' is on the exterior and the strongest dimension of a cylinder.

However, the wall thickness of the boiler shell, itself, to it's diameter is much less (in proportion to the tubes). There are lots of 'concerns' that happen to boiler shells and an early failure cause was 'embrittlement' of the boiler steel, especially at the seams. The calcium and 'salts' dissolved in boiler water could (and did) deeply penetrate the boiler steel (at the molecular level) altering the chemical composition of the steel. This embrittlement, over time, would allow the steel to form minute cracks, like glass, at wherever there was an exposed seam or edge that the impurities could penetrate (rivet holes, seams, lap joints, etc.). The greatest concern for evidence of embrittlement occurs below the nominal water level of the boiler. Also, the chemistry of the local water supply has a lot to do with the dissolved minerals in the water -- western USA regions are notorious for really 'hard' waters.

It was common, and most dangerous, in the circumferential (circular) seams of the affected boiler. The defect would show up as cracks that wiggled from rivet hole to rivet hole, so that if a failure should start, the seam would be able to behave like an opening "fabric zipper" and the whole bottom half of the boiler could laterally separate at the affected joint(s). Such a failure would split the bottom of the boiler wide open in a catastrophic manner.
So, it is important to perform a very thorough 'eyeball' exam of every boiler seam: interior and exterior --- inspecting every seam, in-by-inch.

NOW, here's where modern technology could help: any electronic/NDT/analytic device, or dye test, methods that CAN be used, SHOULD be used to make more complete crack searches, (once the boiler shell is REALLY CLEANED). Like a colonoscopy, the cleaner the better!.

Recording devices (for the files) would be especially helpful in making the analysis available to safety experts and regulators for their edification.
So, what does the technology 'world' have to offer, to increase the accuracy of these vital inspections?
Any 'techies' know of some trustworthy technologies?

Overfire Jets!