Steam & Excursion > Stoker firing --- Best Practices?

Hi Gang!

In my experience, 3 railroads' steam crews (from the REAL days of steam on America's RRs) have taught me the advantages of firing a large loco using
'The shape of the shovel' technique. Where the back corners of the firebox are built up deep with 'coked' coal, a similar pile around the firing table;
but, with the center (and sides) burning bright and thin.

The first was NYC crews (Hudson River Division), the NKP crews, out of Cleveland Union Terminal, the N&W crews out of Roanoke and Willliamson, WV.
Also the C&O crews out of Clifton Forge, VA and the CNJ crews --- Elizabethport, NJ.

Following their example worked well for me and the NKP 759, RDG 2102 and others.
Especially over hilly territory and starting out on steep grades -- Nay Aug, Horseshoe, Altoona, etc

But I have heard criticism of that technique, claiming that a stoker fire should ALWAYS be 'fired flat and thin'.
Supposedly its not as deleterious to the firebox -- minus the deep 'banks'.

What are some other firing experiences, recommendations and teachings? -- together with logical explanations of any benefits.
How about firing the UP 3985 when she burned coal?

Much thanks!
Wes...

I went to the flat and thin school, and this is consistent with everything historical I have read on the subject, as well. The thick technique Wes describes works well for me when handfiring.

A stokered fire about 2-3 inches thick works well; a bit thicker along the sidesheets helps control draft better and prevents overheating the sidesheets.

Here's a link to a tutorial I've written up for fireman training.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,1466718,1469425#msg-1469425

And, a photo of a brass placque on the backhead of the 2719.

Different coals and different grates would also affect technique, as well as how hard does the engineer draft the engine? For some engineers you just HAVE to carry a thicker fire.

-LD



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/12 08:24 by LarryDoyle.

---

Now take into account that what I grew up on were Narrow Gauge 2-8-2's...

But working in Chama, NM I was taught the "Horseshoe" Method...

You keep it flat and low just below the bottom flue line and in the center of the box, then the sides and back by the door were built up keeping the side sheets hot. Plus, doing that made having to fire the flat and low sections easier cause it would work it's way from the sides and the door to the lowest spots in the firebox.

Now like I said these were the Narrow Gauge K-27, K-36, & K-37 2-8-2's nothing like the 765 or 3985, but on average 4.5 Tons hand tossed and for 14 miles of the trip it was straight up the mountain on a 4% grade so the fire was white hot and the locomotive was hungry for coal and thirsty for water.

BabyHuey2926 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now take into account that what I grew up on were
> Narrow Gauge 2-8-2's...
>
> But working in Chama, NM I was taught the
> "Horseshoe" Method...


LOL! I was out there this summer and couldn't believe the coal they were using. The general rule of thumb on a hand bomber is that the depth of the fire should be about 4 times the size of the chunks of coal you're using. I took this picture of the coal pile across from the Chama tipple!
>
> You keep it flat and low just below the bottom
> flue line and in the center of the box, then the
> sides and back by the door were built up keeping
> the side sheets hot.

Actually, its to keep the sheet cooler. The coke portion of the fire burns at about 1800 degrees, while the volatile portion in the combustion space can run up to 2500 degrees. The poorest circulaion, and where mud collects is right down at the bottom of the water legs, so this method helps protect the boiler.

Plus, doing that made having
> to fire the flat and low sections easier cause it
> would work it's way from the sides and the door to
> the lowest spots in the firebox.
>
-LD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/12 14:55 by LarryDoyle.

---

Well, speaking from experience, Wes Camps description worked really well for me on NKP 765, back in the late 1970s.

Ya gotta do what works. Every one of these machines has its own schitzophrenic personalities.

-LD

LarryDoyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ya gotta do what works. Every one of these
> machines has its own schitzophrenic
> personalities.
>
> -LD

Not the NKP 700s, according to to the "old timers" and those of us that have fired 765 or 759.

I could get aches thinking about hand bombing one of those things!

rehunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could get aches thinking about hand bombing one
> of those things!

Actually, it really isn't that hard. Just because the auger screw broke, doesn't mean that the distributing table doesn't work. I think it was the first main line excursion on the N&W, eastbound out of Ft Wayne,IN, enroute to Argos, IN (can't remember the year). One of the bolts in the auger screw universal joint broke, and the two young guys in the cab had to shovel their buts off. Finally, they stopped and one ran back to the crew car and ask for more help since the "Stoker broke!". Dick Yager and I went forward to show the young kids how it's done. Dick promptly sat down in the Fireman's seat and adjusted the distributing table jets, and I grabbed the scoop. The two "kids" promptly started giving Dick a hard time about the "Stoker being broken!". I looked at them and said, "Just because the screw doesn't work, THAT doesn't mean the distributing table isn't still working. You to bozos haven't been trying to throw all that coal all the way into that firebox,,,,HAVE YOU?"

Old age and treachery, will overcome youth and enthusiasm every time!

Jack, I think you should write a book...

The Fort Wayne to Argos, IN, round trip- when the stoker screw broke on a hot July day - was 1980.

NKP779 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Fort Wayne to Argos, IN, round trip- when the
> stoker screw broke on a hot July day - was 1980.

HOT is putting mildly!!!

I can remember the first time we fired up 3985 to do the safety test and other boiler tests. The stoker over the years would not turn. So I hand fired the ole gal until I got up to 225 pounds of boiler pressure which gave enough force to finally turn the screw. That was not an easy feat as it took a bit to get enough pressure up to get the steam needed on the distribution table to hit the back of the firebox. I quickly learned to appreciate the words of wisdom from an engineer I worked with who said when you are done stoking coal, reverse the screw until it quits to unclog the stoker tunnel some for the next time. And i did.
When I hand fired the locomotive I was taught to bank the fire in a horseshoe shape with the heavier bank around the outside and front walls and a light bed in the rest of the firebox. I am not sure if that was the right way but it seemed to work well and didn't create any problems. Now shaking the grates and dumping the ash pans at night was another story.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

tolland Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jack, I think you should write a book...


Hear! Hear!

That looks smaller then the coal we were getting when I was there...

They had a new guy working the loader from the coal mine and he was getting the piles of coal that wasn't broken up yet...

You talk about throwing "bricks" of coal into the firebox

I just used the shaker bar and broke it up and then hand bombed away!