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Date: 04/01/14 17:01
SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: alco636

Do these two locomotives retain their SP whistles? Or have they been replaced by one from a different locomotive, or even railroad. I have a cd with some 4449 recordings. Just wondering. Thanks!

P.S. What's the status of the 4449? When could it run next?

Posted from Android

Al Seever
Phoenix, AZ



Date: 04/01/14 17:12
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: LoggerHogger

Al,

SP #4449 currently has an authentic SP Daylight Whistle on her. I got this whistle a few years ago and have her on the engine. This is the first time since she was restored for the Freedom Train that she sports an authentic Daylight whistle.

The first photo shows the whistle and her valve before we cleaned it up and serviced it. The next shows what is involved in the installation process.

Martin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/14 12:43 by LoggerHogger.






Date: 04/01/14 18:06
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: 4-12-2

As Martin has stated, it's been my understanding (meaning just that, I don't KNOW this, I merely understand it) that 4449 has over the years carried quite a number of different Hancock Long-Bell 3-chime whistles. From NP, SP&S and possibly other roads, I have never before heard that she's carried an actual "SP" whistle.

One thing needs to be understood here. It's about 98% likely that each of these whistles outwardly appeared the same, they simply sounded differently as steam whistles will do.

John Bush
Omaha



Date: 04/01/14 18:18
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: X4449

4-12-2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As Martin has stated, it's been my understanding
> (meaning just that, I don't KNOW this, I merely
> understand it) that 4449 has over the years
> carried quite a number of different Hancock
> Long-Bell 3-chime whistles. From NP, SP&S and
> possibly other roads, I have never before heard
> that she's carried an actual "SP" whistle.
>
> One thing needs to be understood here. It's about
> 98% likely that each of these whistles outwardly
> appeared the same, they simply sounded differently
> as steam whistles will do.
>
> John Bush
> Omaha


She ran one trip with the SP1785's whistle, I don't recall what run it was. Also IIRC it was on the fireman's side.

Jim



Date: 04/01/14 18:21
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: spnudge

I was a pilot on the 4449, about 6 times. Many years ago from KF-DUN. There was the regular rope for the hoghead and thats it. This trip they had a valve over by the fireman and it was a different whistle. We tried it in the Canyon but it quit before we got to Dunsmuir.

I remember Art Laidlaw loaned me a whistle he got off a old Mallet that was going to the scrapper at BI. I took it over to McCloud for the #25 but it could only be blown by an air valve.

Any idea what happened to Arthur's collection? I know his daughter worked for Atk back in the 70s when he lived in Margarita. I saw her once or twice at the depot and thats it.

When I sent the whistle back to Art, it was on ATK. I got called for the plug to Oakland so I tossed the whistle in ther cab, in an old burlap sack. The outbound hoghead from Oakland to SLO said he would take care of it. The crew dispatcher at BI called Arthur and told him he better get down to the depot. There was a huge burlap bag that came in from ATK-Dunsmuir.

Cheap shipping AND security.


Nudge



Date: 04/01/14 19:58
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: engine3420

spnudge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was a pilot on the 4449, about 6 times. Many
> years ago from KF-DUN. There was the regular rope
> for the hoghead and thats it. This trip they had a
> valve over by the fireman and it was a different
> whistle. We tried it in the Canyon but it quit
> before we got to Dunsmuir.
>
> I remember Art Laidlaw loaned me a whistle he got
> off a old Mallet that was going to the scrapper at
> BI. I took it over to McCloud for the #25 but it
> could only be blown by an air valve.
>
> Any idea what happened to Arthur's collection? I
> know his daughter worked for Atk back in the 70s
> when he lived in Margarita. I saw her once or
> twice at the depot and thats it.
>
> When I sent the whistle back to Art, it was on
> ATK. I got called for the plug to Oakland so I
> tossed the whistle in ther cab, in an old burlap
> sack. The outbound hoghead from Oakland to SLO
> said he would take care of it. The crew dispatcher
> at BI called Arthur and told him he better get
> down to the depot. There was a huge burlap bag
> that came in from ATK-Dunsmuir.
>
> Cheap shipping AND security.
>
>
> Nudge

Art gave the Cab Fortward whistle to his Daughter as a wedding present, it was sold a few years ago on Ebay. We used another one of Art's 6 chime whistles that had a manual valve and put it on IID's #151 at Railfair 91 and I kept that whistle here at home for future use on the # 151. Eventually Art took that whistle home and I do not know of it's wearabouts now. Art passed away a couple of years ago.
Chris



Date: 04/01/14 23:08
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: crackerjackhoghead

LoggerHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Al,
>
> SP #4449 currently has an authentic SP Daylight
> Whistle on her. I got this whistle a few years
> ago and have her on the engine. This is the first
> time since she was restored for the Freedom Train
> that she sports an authentic Daylight whistle.
>
> Martin

Although this flat-top Hancock would have been off of a GS-2 or GS-3. Hancock made the change in 1938. The GS-4's would have been delivered with a step-top Hancock. They sound essentially the same but the flat-top version sounds a little sweeter than the step-top.



Date: 04/02/14 06:58
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: whistlepig

I grew up on Colorado St. a couple of blocks east of the SP tracks in Glendale. I heard many SP trains over the years and can never recall hearing a steam whistle on The Daylight, it was always the air horn. My grandfather took me up in to a GS4 at San Luis Obispo one time when I was about 9 years old. I distinctly remember the engineer showing me the two valves on the engineer's side. He told me one was for the air horn and one was for the whistle.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/14 09:05 by whistlepig.



Date: 04/02/14 08:25
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: HotWater

whistlepig Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I grew up on Colorado St. a couple of blocks east
> of the SP tracks in Glendale. I heard many SP
> trains over the years and can never recall hearing
> a steam whistle on The Daylight, it wqas always
> the air horn. My grandfather took me up in to a
> GS4 at San Luis Obispo one time when I was about 9
> years old. I distinctly remember the engineer
> showing me the two valves on the engineer's side.
> He told me one was for the air horn and one was
> for the whistle.

I was wondering when someone would bring this up. THANKS!!!

When 4449 was originally in service, the steam whistle, actually mounted in the Skyline Casing, just forward of the cab and turret covers, was indeed air operated, i.e. either ON or OFF! As part of the rebuild/restoration for the Freedom Train, Doyle very quickly decided that he sure as hell didn't want that whistle THAT close to the cab. Thus a superheated steam pipe was added so that the whistle could be mounted WAY FORWARD, right beside the stack, on the Engineer's side. AA cable system was added for the Engineer's ability to "play" the whistle. A similar system was also mounted on the Fireman's side so the "guest" whistles could be carried, and blown by the Fireman.

The small brass lever for the original air horn is still on the Engineer's air brake stand, however the "air blow system" for the steam whistle was removed.



Date: 04/02/14 08:44
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: IronDuke

The whistle that the 4449 carried on the engineers side from 1984 until 2010 was out of my collection.
I was told it was from an NP 2-8-8-4 when I acquired it in the mid 70's. Its a 3 chime.
It is currently in my shop here in Oregon Dick Yager



Date: 04/02/14 12:22
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: crackerjackhoghead

whistlepig Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I distinctly remember the engineer
> showing me the two valves on the engineer's side.
> He told me one was for the air horn and one was
> for the whistle.

And they were marked as such.






Date: 04/02/14 12:31
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: wcamp1472

Now (when Operational), Doyle uses it to wake-up snoozing/distracted firemyn. !!!

WES C.



Date: 04/02/14 12:32
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: wcamp1472

Now (when Operational), Doyle uses it to wake-up snoozing/distracted firemyn.

WES C.



Date: 04/02/14 13:07
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: Hillcrest

Al, to answer the other part of your question sources close to the project say 4449 will be pulling the Holiday Express this year, so I wouldn't be surprised to see her out and about in late fall.

Cheers, Dave



Date: 04/02/14 18:51
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: 4-12-2

THANKS to all who provided interesting information in this thread, Jack in particular for his recounting off modifications made in early days. I agree that Martin's whistle is the earlier flat-top model of Hancock's whistle and that the GS-4's would have been fitted with the later step-top version.

I believe it was in CTC Board that I read of different whistles being fitted to 4449 in her early days of operation following Freedom Train restoration. Was it Harry Demorro? Sorry for what is probably incorrect spelling.

John Bush
Omaha



Date: 04/03/14 05:53
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: alco636

Thank you HotWater, and all! Great reading. Dave, that's wonderful to know. Gotta check out their store and send a few dollars their way.

Posted from Android

Al Seever
Phoenix, AZ



Date: 04/03/14 06:01
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: alco636

Thanks Martin! Knowing this important locomotive in American history has an original whistle is really great.

I've only seen the 4449 twice. But those were two times I'll never forget.



LoggerHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Al,
>
> SP #4449 currently has an authentic SP Daylight
> Whistle on her. I got this whistle a few years
> ago and have her on the engine. This is the first
> time since she was restored for the Freedom Train
> that she sports an authentic Daylight whistle.
>
> The first photo shows the whistle and her valve
> before we cleaned it up and serviced it. The next
> shows what is involved in the installation
> process.
>
> Martin

Posted from Android

Al Seever
Phoenix, AZ



Date: 04/03/14 08:29
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: Earlk

So, what did the 4449 carry during the AFT days? I recall some sort of Hancock 3 chime and an Espee 6 chime.

Recordings I have of 4460 are a 6 chime that was air operated. Does 4460 still have it's whistle?



Date: 04/03/14 09:01
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: HotWater

Earlk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, what did the 4449 carry during the AFT days?
> I recall some sort of Hancock 3 chime and an Espee
> 6 chime.

The whistle on the Engineer's side was Joe Crumbly's whistle, which he saved off the SP&S 700. The Fireman's side whistle was a 6-Chime whistle, from a Santa Fe locomotive, as best as I can remember. The Fireman's side whistle was removed shortly after we arrived in San Louis Obispo, on April 26, 1977 with the Amtrak Transcontinental Steam Excursion. It seems that the big 6-chime whistle came with a bit too much baggage, as the owner kept pestering Doyle, so "his whistle" was removed and handed directly to him, wrapped in rags since it was still hot!

After the 700 was "returned to steam, Doyle returned her whistle, that Joe Crumbly had saved & protected. SP 4449 then harried Dick Yager's former NP "Z Class" whistle on the Engineer's side. Over the years, we have carried some pretty unusual whistles on the Fireman's side, such as George Lacacot's SP freight whistle (which was eventually stolen right off 4449 while sitting in Brooklyn Roundhouse), plus the late Skip Gage's CB&Q M4a (2-10-4) whistle during the Phil Anchutzs Sacramento Jazz Festival trips (can't remember the year), which was lively blown by Bob Slover and recorded on-board by the late Brad S. Miller (it is truly a SPECTACULAR recording as we accelerated up hill out of the curve speed restriction at Davis, CA going westbound back to Oakland).



Date: 04/03/14 10:28
Re: SP 4449 and 4460 whistle question
Author: Finderskeepers

Hotwater, what is the whistle heard here at the 2:37 mark of the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk9hmoU-OKk&sns=em

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/14 10:29 by Finderskeepers.



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