Steam & Excursion > Air buffs as nutty as steam buffs

A neighbor passed along a back issue of Invention & Technology magazine to me last evening. It's a quarterly and usually has something that catches my interest. I found a most interesting piece in this one about TIGHAR (The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery). They produce it "Tiger". Among their goals are "to locate and rescue old aircraft; to ensure that their remains are treated with the proper respect for historical integrity (in some cases, by not flying them)..."

Kinda reminds me of the cab forward at the California State Railroad Museum.

What followed sounds very familiar to this TO reader. "...organizations like the Confederate Air Force were drawing huge crowds to watch painted-up restorations fly with a widely varying mixture of original components, parts cannibalized from other planes, and modern replacements." It went on to note: "...fliers quickly noticed the potential for showmanship. And when there's too much showmanship and not enough scholarship, it gets TIGHAR'S dander up." The big debate argues about whether to fly or preserve.

Anyway they sum up with TIGHAR'S editorial which said, "the destruction of historic aircraft occurs most frequently not in airshow crashes but in 'restoration' shops."

Hmmm, since 4014 is going to be in passenger service I wonder how it will look in leaf brown and yellow with streamlining......

JB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/14 12:28 by Copy19.

Copy19 Wrote:
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> Hmmm, since 4014 is going to be in passenger
> service I wonder how it will look in leaf brown
> and yellow with streamlining......
>
> JB

He says, tongue firmly in cheek. Thanks, John, for the reminder of the need for respect in restoration. And for the reminder of what we all should hope would never, ever happen.

MC
Columbia, Missouri

No. Tighar is still looking for Amelia. They should talk.

Should you want to see a great airliner swap meet and gathering, not to mention many air foamers, be at LAX July 8-12 for the annual Airliners International conference. Based at Sheraton Gateway Hotel at LAX. AI has a website with all the details, photo set-ups, etc.

NormSchultze Wrote:
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> No. Tighar is still looking for Amelia. They
> should talk.


They have had there troubles as some things have not always been above boards with them in years past gathering funding from people. Do hope that has changed now.

Unfortunately there is NO "confederate air force". Name was changed a few years ago to "commerative" for reasons only do gooders will understand

As someone who had an ancestor who was a POW at Andersonville, I think the CAF name change was a smart move that has probably increased support from other parts of the US.

rhotond Wrote:
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> Unfortunately there is NO "confederate air force".
> Name was changed a few years ago to
> "commerative" for reasons only do gooders will
> understand


Yup politically correct again another thing has been changed. Doubt if it was anything that gained followers due to it either other than a few who want to continue grinding the same axe.

Another comparison, eBay had a slide of a little Sikorsky that went for $188.
Kodachrome of course. Must have been the Milwaukee of choppers.

Posted from Android

Speaking of historic aircraft, John, it's too bad none of the Union Pacific fleet has beens saved for posterity (or has it?). Used to share the ramp at Long Beach with several of your company's jets, their fuel bill for Jet A was significantly larger than ours.

rhotond Wrote:
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> Unfortunately there is NO "confederate air force".
> Name was changed a few years ago to
> "commerative" for reasons only do gooders will
> understand


I would think most folks would understand the obvious, not just those "do gooders"

Quoting - "And when there's too much showmanship and not enough scholarship, it gets TIGHAR'S dander up." The big debate argues about whether to fly or preserve"

My vote goes to "fly".

Have fun, be safe,
Bruce "Doc" Jones Sierra Madre CA

Alco251 Wrote:
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> Speaking of historic aircraft, John, it's too bad
> none of the Union Pacific fleet has beens saved
> for posterity (or has it?). Used to share the ramp
> at Long Beach with several of your company's jets,
> their fuel bill for Jet A was significantly larger
> than ours.

I'm not aware that any UP corporate aircraft have been preserved. It's possible some of them might still be around but I don't know any of their histories.

BAB Wrote:
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> rhotond Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Unfortunately there is NO "confederate air
> force".
> > Name was changed a few years ago to
> > "commerative" for reasons only do gooders will
> > understand
>
>
> Yup politically correct again another thing has
> been changed. Doubt if it was anything that gained
> followers due to it either other than a few who
> want to continue grinding the same axe.

My dad, rest in peace, joined the Army Air Corps on December 8, 1941. He was a B26 pilot during the Italian campaign and nearly lost his life. After the War he continued to fly for the Air Force for 28 years before retiring as a military man. He was a staunch Republican; thus, you could say he was a hawk; he certainly wasn't PC, and he was hardly a liberal. Yet he felt that the name Confederate Air Force was an offense against the UNITED States, and couldn't understand why an organization would honor a traitorous army who lost.

BCHellman Wrote:
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> and couldn't understand why an organization would
> honor a traitorous army who lost.

You pretty much have to spend some time in the South to understand the South. There are a lot of people there that still believe that a state should have the right to succeed from the USA. Those people are still convinced they were fighting a War Of Succession rather than the War Against Slavery. Thus, even though they lost, they are still proud of those that stood up for the cause.

Arguably they were right, the Constitution did give them the right to succeed. (More specifically it says nothing of succession, and does say that except for the enumerated Rights of the Federal Government, all other rights belong to the various States or their People.) The fact that they lost merely proved (to them) that a mechanized country can roll over an agricultural country most any day of the week.

The above statements are probably completely incomprehensible to anyone from the rest of the US, or that has grown up under the modern PC history that bears very little resemblance to what really happened and what people really thought in days past.

Nutty is relative. I saw Vulcans in active service decades ago and was absolutely thrilled to see it fly last summer at the Southeast Airshow in Manston. Still want to see the DB powered ME-109 at Munich-Manching...so all in all trains and planes make for an interesting hobby.

Posted from iPhone

crusader5619 Wrote:
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> Nutty is relative. I saw Vulcans in active service
> decades ago and was absolutely thrilled to see it
> fly last summer at the Southeast Airshow in
> Manston. Still want to see the DB powered ME-109
> at Munich-Manching...so all in all trains and
> planes make for an interesting hobby.

Further to your comment about seeing vintage aircraft fly as they
were intended to do the following uRL may well be
of interest to many in the US and the UK...

http://www.warplane.com/lancaster-2014-uk-tour.aspx

To all -
RE: are air buffs and nutty as steam buffs?

I am one and, speaking for myself, a resounding YES!

Nowadays I search for the remaining piston-powered (the ones with Big Round Motors) planes still in regular service, like we searched for steam in its waning days. It's getting harder and harder to find them. The best places to find them in this country is over any large wildfire. Neptune still runs a nice fleet of Lockheed P-2'v's and Minden has one. There's a DC-6 and a DC-7 around here and there, mostly in Canada but US Forest Service refused to contract with most of the old tanker fleet quite a few years ago.

The Queen of Them All is the Mighty Martin Mars, owned by Coulson Flying Tankers and most likely headed for a museum soon. Good luck to all who love the sound of a radial as mucn as they do a steam locomotive. Somehow, being in real service other than "preserved" ("conserved?) is way better, don't you agree?

Just some random thoughts,
Have fun, be safe,
Bruce "Doc" Jones Sierra Madre CA

Are any of you old enough to have attended "Transpo 72," AFAIK the only USA national airshow that ever took place. A huge collection of the CAF airplanes were there, and some said it was the entire fleet. First time I ever saw a bf-109 up close. I was there as part of Lockheed's L-1011 crew. We had flown the L-1011 from Palmdale, CA to Dulles Airport in Washington, completely on autopilot including a fully automatic landing. Every day the USAF Thunderbirds, USN Blue Angels and the visiting RAF Red Arrows flew. The T-birds lost one during the show, and both US teams were flying McDonnell-Douglas F-4's at the time. Many other demos took place daily. Somewhere I have the program. One hilarious thing that took place was during a Bob Hoover demo in his yellow P-51. When it came time to land, one of the main gears failed to come down. There was a lot of radio chatter and someone who also flew a P-51 in the show volunteered to talk Bob down. If anyone knew how to handle the situation, it was Bob. After doing everything humanly possible while airborne, pulling G, etc. he made a beautiful landing holding the undeployed gear wing up until he literally stalled that wing. The only damage was some wingtip scrapes and he was back flying the airplane the next day. I also used to attend the Reno Air Races every year. Great stuff.

nycman Wrote:
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...............I was there as part of Lockheed's L-1011
> crew. We had flown the L-1011 from Palmdale, CA
> to Dulles Airport in Washington, completely on
> autopilot including a fully automatic landing...........

Hey, nycman, was Tony LeVier on that flight? I heard that story directly from him. I think he may have flown it west from Washington National to Palmdale. I think that was it. The L-1011 was one jet I really liked. Really enjoyed your stories. I went to Reno in the 70's during my misspent youth. Did you ever go to the late great Mojave Air Races?

Now, back to railroading.

Look to Lockheed for Leadership

Have fun, be safe,
Bruce "Doc" Jones Sierra Madre CA.