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Steam & Excursion > Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?


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Date: 09/05/14 10:40
Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: DRGW3014

I was up in Heber,Utah area last weekend and ran across Southern Pacific #982 Tender from 2-10-2 F-1
at the Heber Valley railroad yard in Heber City,Utah. Last I saw this tender was in Houston,Texas with the steam locomotive?




Date: 09/05/14 10:48
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: Realist

Could be for the 75? Or the 618?



Date: 09/05/14 11:09
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: unclebob

Caught this one outside June 13th in Heber.

Mike




Date: 09/05/14 11:25
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: MKT103

There not getting the Locomotive only the tender . Locomotive will be part of a display in Houston Though I don't know how without the tender . Long story and I don't know it enough about it to tell it but not a good deal for the now tender less SP 982.

Troy



Date: 09/05/14 11:38
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: DRGW3014

Here is photo on the same day with 618 tender on left side of photo it looks to be in good shape.

Thanks,
Craig




Date: 09/05/14 11:42
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: Realist

Those tenders look very similar to each other.

The locomotive is going to be indoors in a new museum
built around it.

They apparently have plans that don't involve the tender.

They also apparently have money and ownership of the locomotive
and tender, so complaints should go to them.

The 982 is only about a block away from the baseball stadium
in Houston. Went to an Astros game about a month ago and
noticed the locomotive has been painted and freshened up
considerably.



Date: 09/05/14 11:44
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: Txhighballer

Yes, it is SP 982's tender. No, people in Texas are NOT happy about what transpired....



Date: 09/05/14 12:32
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: MKT103

Well here it is The Rest Of The Story

I got an answer to why the tender was removed from SP 982 and how the locomotive will be displayed in the new museum. Feel free to share with anyone that wants to know.
>
> Skip Waters
> Dallas, Texas
>
>
>
>
> John E. Rimmasch
> Chairman of the Board, Chief Executive Officer
> Wasatch Railroad Contractors
>
>
>
> Thank you for taking the time to send me a note, Skip.
>
> Please send this note out to as many who may share your concerns. Your concern is valid and worth a full response!
>
> The new Museum/Culture center that is being built has a very limited foot print. The purpose of the museum is to depict history and modernization in the area for a variety of industries and periods. As such, the museum has a number of really cool displays and areas. One of them is a Space Center where kids can replay the Apollo Space Missions by working in ground control and in a model space module. That aspect, along with other displays limits the space for the train.
>
> So, the designers came to us and said, "what do we do?" The entire locomotive and tender physically can not fit in the building and include all of the other displays. We could cut the tender in half.....we could make a false tender.....we could scrap the tender.....
>
> In it all it was decided that any option that included any aspect of scrapping was simply not a reasonable answer. To save part of the tender but sacrifice the rest was not logical. So, the owners asked us to find a home that would take the tender on very specific conditions. It had to be preserved and used and it could not be scrapped or sold otherwise. As it turned out, the Heber Valley Railroad is converting UP 618 to burn oil and the tenders of the 982 and the 618 were identical. HVRR agreed to the terms and conditions and they won the right to own the tender.
>
> Back to the locomotive. The display area for the locomotive is really cool. I have seen the drawings and the conceptual views of it. Most people, even the railfans will not be able to see or notice that the tender is not there, the display is that well planned. The locomotive will appear to be entering a depot complex and as such, the back most portion and the /locomotive/ tender will not even be visible. The focus will be on the front portion of the locomotive and the depot area.
>
> Long story short. The tender was not scrapped, it will be used, the locomotive will have a great life indoors in the museum for all to enjoy and nothing has been lost or sacrificed. It was a tight rope all along, but in the end, the best has been done for all items in the interest of preservation and accuracy and in the hopes that railfans and all alike will understand when it is all done.
>
> I am confident that in the end, all of us, railfans included, will say....
>
> "well done."
>
> I know it is not a perfect answer, but honestly, the very best solution all around.
>
> Thanks again for asking.
>
> Kindly,
>
> JohnE.
>
>



Date: 09/05/14 12:58
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: Mgoldman

So then... "Project 982" is no more, apparently.

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1177

Not sure how old that project was initiated - link
on Steam Locomotive is no longer valid. Pics seem
corrupt in the photo album?

/Mitch



Date: 09/05/14 13:22
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: 3751_loony

I feel they deserve "props" for having the foresight to preserve the tender, even if it is in another reqion. At some point, perhaps one of the two tenders can be re-mated to it, or even another one, if any kind of restoration can take place.

Jim Montague
IRVINE, CA
Train and Nature photo Art



Date: 09/05/14 13:36
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: SF5953

Interesting turn of events. I am kind of disappointed that 618 is going to be converted to an oil burner. But I will get over it. Thank you for everyone that provided information.



Date: 09/05/14 13:38
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: HotWater

3751_loony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
At some point, perhaps one of the
> two tenders can be re-mated to it, or even another
> one, if any kind of restoration can take place.

Restoration for WHAT? Lets all remember that this locomotive is a LOW DRIVERED 2-10-2, with PLAIN BEARINGS, grease at that, and wouldn't be much good for anything on todays main line railroads. In its new venue, it will be well protected from the elements.



Date: 09/05/14 13:52
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: Txhighballer

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 3751_loony Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> At some point, perhaps one of the
> > two tenders can be re-mated to it, or even
> another
> > one, if any kind of restoration can take place.
>
> Restoration for WHAT? Lets all remember that this
> locomotive is a LOW DRIVERED 2-10-2, with PLAIN
> BEARINGS, grease at that, and wouldn't be much
> good for anything on todays main line railroads.
> In its new venue, it will be well protected from
> the elements.


Hot Water:

The 982 may be a low drivered 2-10-2, but she is well capable of running at mainline speed, just like 4501, another low- drivered locomotive, and T&P 610, another low - drivered and considerably bigger 2-10-4.

Oil cellar conversion has been successful on many engines, and should not be a deal breaker in her case

Another factor you may not be aware of, the F-1 class of 2-10-2's were built for PASSENGER service, and also served in that role a little in Texas during her service life.



Date: 09/05/14 14:04
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: Realist

Txhighballer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 3751_loony Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > At some point, perhaps one of the
> > > two tenders can be re-mated to it, or even
> > another
> > > one, if any kind of restoration can take
> place.
> >
> > Restoration for WHAT? Lets all remember that
> this
> > locomotive is a LOW DRIVERED 2-10-2, with PLAIN
> > BEARINGS, grease at that, and wouldn't be much
> > good for anything on todays main line
> railroads.
> > In its new venue, it will be well protected
> from
> > the elements.
>
>
> Hot Water:
>
> The 982 may be a low drivered 2-10-2, but she is
> well capable of running at mainline speed, just
> like 4501, another low- drivered locomotive, and
> T&P 610, another low - drivered and considerably
> bigger 2-10-4.
>
> Oil cellar conversion has been successful on many
> engines, and should not be a deal breaker in her
> case
>
> Another factor you may not be aware of, the F-1
> class of 2-10-2's were built for PASSENGER
> service, and also served in that role a little in
> Texas during her service life.

Now that's funny right there.

In this case, "passenger service" meant as a helper
in mountainous, slow territory on passenger trains,
or on secondary or even lower priority passenger trains
and mixed trains.

No sane or sober railroad man then or now would
think of using this thing as a passenger engine
should be used----at 60+ mph. At least, not for
very long. Not to mention issues with the long rigid
driver wheelbase.

Did anyone catch the fact that the engine and tender
together would not fit in the new building??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/14 14:08 by Realist.



Date: 09/05/14 14:07
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: Keystone1

I saw and photographed this engine in Houston just once in my life. I flew out of Newark, N.J. that morning, to meet someone. I had some hours to kill, so I went to the park to see this 2-10-2 on display. It was a beautiful clear day, and hardly anyone was around to get in my way of studying and photographing the locomotive. It was the morning of Sept. 11th... Yes, THAT Sept.11th!



Date: 09/05/14 14:59
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: HotWater

Txhighballer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Hot Water:
>
> The 982 may be a low drivered 2-10-2, but she is
> well capable of running at mainline speed, just
> like 4501, another low- drivered locomotive, and
> T&P 610, another low - drivered and considerably
> bigger 2-10-4.


Try to remember that the #630, as well as the #4501, will be operating at 40MPH. Even when she was in Southern Railway excursion service, #4501 RARELY exceeded 50MPH! During the career of T&P 610, she RARELY saw 65MPH, and mostly 55MPH.

>
> Oil cellar conversion has been successful on many
> engines, and should not be a deal breaker in her
> case

Sure, but try and convince the "younger generation" in all the current railroad Mechanical Departments of that.


> Another factor you may not be aware of, the F-1
> class of 2-10-2's were built for PASSENGER
> service, and also served in that role a little in
> Texas during her service life.

Surely you can't be serious. A 63 1/5 inch driveled 2-10-2 (when new) in PASSENGER SERVICE? You must have had some pretty slow passenger trains, and VERY steep grades for those F-1s.



Date: 09/05/14 16:11
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: callum_out

The SP used MK series mikes in passenger service, like the Klamath. Well
let's just say they pulled cars with passengers in them, on schedules that
said passengers didn't seem to be concerned about. 49 mph would have been
like "fast".

Out



Date: 09/05/14 20:23
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: Txhighballer

There are pictures out there of SP 786 pulling the Argonaut between San Antonio and Houston. Both 786 and 982 were equipped with steam heat and air signal lines. The counterbalancing on the 982 was reconfigured to allow higher speeds, and I have talked to engineers who have run F-1's at better than 60, and one still has the censure letter to prove it!

At the end of the day, a locomotive like 982 you could slot in the schedule like a coal train, which on most roads the maximum authorized speed is 50MPH. She has more starting tractive effort than NKP 765, and not counting the booster, and more TE than 4449.

There would be no need to run any faster than that, just as there is no need for the 4449 to run 90, but I know it's nice to be able to....



Date: 09/05/14 20:43
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: Realist

Txhighballer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are pictures out there of SP 786 pulling the
> Argonaut between San Antonio and Houston. Both 786
> and 982 were equipped with steam heat and air
> signal lines. The counterbalancing on the 982 was
> reconfigured to allow higher speeds, and I have
> talked to engineers who have run F-1's at better
> than 60, and one still has the censure letter to
> prove it!

Which is a good indication that SP didn't want those
locomotives run that fast. I don't know SP passenger
train history or that route, so was the Argonaut a
premium train with a fast schedule like maybe the Sunset
or Golden State? What kind of topography does that line
consist of? All flat, or what?

>
> At the end of the day, a locomotive like 982 you
> could slot in the schedule like a coal train,
> which on most roads the maximum authorized speed
> is 50MPH. She has more starting tractive effort
> than NKP 765, and not counting the booster, and
> more TE than 4449.
>
> There would be no need to run any faster than
> that, just as there is no need for the 4449 to run
> 90, but I know it's nice to be able to....

How many wyes are left that could handle that long
wheelbase without rolling the rail over underneath it?

Are said wyes close enough together to make a day
excursion practical?



Date: 09/05/14 20:57
Re: Tender from SP 982 in Heber Utah ?
Author: Txhighballer

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Txhighballer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are pictures out there of SP 786 pulling
> the
> > Argonaut between San Antonio and Houston. Both
> 786
> > and 982 were equipped with steam heat and air
> > signal lines. The counterbalancing on the 982
> was
> > reconfigured to allow higher speeds, and I have
> > talked to engineers who have run F-1's at
> better
> > than 60, and one still has the censure letter
> to
> > prove it!
>
> Which is a good indication that SP didn't want
> those
> locomotives run that fast. I don't know SP
> passenger
> train history or that route, so was the Argonaut a
>
> premium train with a fast schedule like maybe the
> Sunset
> or Golden State? What kind of topography does
> that line
> consist of? All flat, or what?

The Argonaut ran between Houston and San Antonio, with the line between Houston and Glidden being the pretty flat, and west of Glidden the grades stiffen to a bit over one percent, but as I can recall, most of them are not particularly long.
>
> >
> > At the end of the day, a locomotive like 982
> you
> > could slot in the schedule like a coal train,
> > which on most roads the maximum authorized
> speed
> > is 50MPH. She has more starting tractive effort
> > than NKP 765, and not counting the booster, and
> > more TE than 4449.
> >
> > There would be no need to run any faster than
> > that, just as there is no need for the 4449 to
> run
> > 90, but I know it's nice to be able to....
>
> How many wyes are left that could handle that
> long
> wheelbase without rolling the rail over underneath
> it?
>
> Are said wyes close enough together to make a day
> excursion practical?

If the 982 were operational, I can think of at least five wyes she could be turned on with no trouble in Houston, and on the routes that I believe she could run on, there are wyes on each route no farther than 150 miles from Houston...plenty far enough for an all- day ride. Houston would make a GREAT base for excursions. Frequent air service, Amtrak service, and a selection of routes and places to turn.



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