Steam & Excursion > We Don't Know What Happened But Her Engineer Suffered Most!

There are certain photos taken of the aftermath of incidents with steam locomotives that leave one breathless.  This happens to be one of those images.

We see that Union Pacific #419 has suffered what appears to be a failure with her running gear.  The "swiped away" cab side is usually indicative of a piece of the rod or eccentrics breaking away at high speed.  In this situation the connecting rods and main rod still seem to be intact.  However the valve rods may have given way.  We also notice the damage to the rear of the tender which could have occurred when the #419 came to her sudden stop.

Regardless of exactly what happened it looks like it was sudden and I doubt the engineer knew what hit him.  A tragic day on the rails during the age of steam.

Martin



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/16 03:10 by LoggerHogger.

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What a tragedy! I seem to remember an old photo of a Camelback locomotive that suffered a rod failure. In that tiny cab the engineer didn't have a chance and the poor fireman was helpless to do anything.

I'm just sayin'....

looks to me more like collision damage, or rockslide results... It doesn't look like running gear failure.
Might have been a "collision" entering a siding, like a meet on a switch......cause there's no front end damage.

Probably there were a lot of wrecks ( parked outside the roundhouse....) waiting repairs .

Wes C.

With everything from the running boards to the cab sides and floor simply removed and no damage to the front of the tender it looks like a runing gear failure to me.  If it was a side swipe or hit we would see the cab sides and running gear still intact but crushed.  That is not the case.  They have simply been wiped completely off the engine.

Note that the piston has been pushed out of the cylinder.

Martin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/16 03:24 by LoggerHogger.

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Rod failure, not likely..

1. Low speed freight engine, small drivers.  Probably not a super high-speed event.

2. Rod lengths are too short for a Rod segment to have swung in a wide arc, ( all way back to the cab?)  as extent of damage was greater than Rod/ length physics

Looks like something ran into the engine at an angle.

Its good to discuss, but as you say, the "people"  side of the story is what's more important.
Wish we knew more..

Wes C.

I agree with the collision theory.  The only thing missing on the running gear is the eccentric road and union link, which would have been removed when towing the engine in.  I tlooks like something (big) hit the engine in the cab.  Hopefully the engineer saw it coming and ducked out of the way (or jumped).

Also, 
At the site of the event, the Wreck Master might have ordered the removal of certain mangled and hanging parts, running boards, etc.  preparatory  to moving the engine to the terminal.  As well as the removal of the valve gear recip parts, as noted.

The damage to the tender is confusing.
And I had another thought: that the event might have occurred by an errant loco or car moving into the loco from the rear?
Maybe this engine, at the site, was parked and got run-into?

W.

I'm with Wes............
I'm gonna speculate that this is collision damage that occured in a yard. I think the engine was on the lead and a cut of cars either rolled out or was shoved out of a yard track to foul and the head car cornered the cab right at the back post and under the roof. The cut then derailed on impact and another car hit the tender.

Just my $0.02 worth.

I wonder also but the damage from another car it would have to be something that did not extend high enough to damage the roof. Also if it cornered or was by another car there would be one point of impact if the engine was stopped. If it was moving when hit the damage would extend futher. MY .00002 cents worth, figure its not worth much,LOL.

I wouldnt totally discount some kind of running gear problem but it looks more like a collision to me. Guessing the loco was on a yard lead..at a switch..moving slowly or stopped when a cut of cars was over pushed out another yard track.  The loco likely isnt at the accident site in this photo so who knows what was cut away and cleaned off to move it.  I dont think we can discount the lack of crushed material for this reson.
Roger Beckett

up833 Wrote:
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> I wouldnt totally discount some kind of running
> gear problem but it looks more like a collision to
> me. Guessing the loco was on a yard lead..at a
> switch..moving slowly or stopped when a cut of
> cars was over pushed out another yard track.  The
> loco likely isnt at the accident site in this
> photo so who knows what was cut away and cleaned
> off to move it.  I dont think we can discount the
> lack of crushed material for this reson.
> Roger Beckett

I tend to agree with this. Why?  The rear side rod doesn't appear to be damaged, nor is the main rod. Also, why is the rearend of the tender also damaged, as THAT sure didn't didn't occur from flying side rods.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also, 
> At the site of the event, the Wreck Master might
> have ordered the removal of certain mangled and
> hanging parts, running boards, etc.  preparatory
>  to moving the engine to the terminal.  As well
> as the removal of the valve gear recip parts, as
> noted.
>
>
> W.

I do not believe there was material removed by the CMO.  There appears to be lose material still dangling about in the remains of the cab that would have been removed if they were going to the trouble of cutting off damaged parts.

If there was a failure in the runing gear that could certainly have caused a sudden halting of the engine that could have led to the tender damage.

Again there clues in the photo as to what happened here but not enough to draw any firm conclusions.

Martin

I' m sorry, Martin, ---- BUT for the short size of that side rod, it's not physically possible for a [whirling]  broken stub to reach up as far as that damage ecxtends towards the cab
Which Rod do you propose that it was, that failed?

Where did the rod fail, in your 'mental model'..  Near the end, the middle or at the front knuckle..?

Take out your calipers and scale it off the photo.

Wes C.

 

Looks like only the eccentric rod is missing. So,,,,,,did the locomotive get side-swiped/cornered?

Jack, as mentioned above,  the eccencentric rod and he Union link were both probably removed preparatory to moving it, dead.

Looks like a good move..

Wes C.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jack, as mentioned above,  the eccencentric rod
> and he Union link were both probably removed
> preparatory to moving it, dead.
>
> Looks like a good move..
>
> Wes C.

OK, agreed. But with the power reverse completely gone, and no missing side rods, I'm having trouble believing that she "striped herself".

Might be a manual Johnson Bar for the reverse...
Need to see a picture of a similar class engine, sister engine....

Wes C.

Oddly, the engine appears to have "2275" in her indicators. Perhaps she was a point helper when the wreck occurred?

Posted from iPhone

There's another anomaly....

The front tender truck looks to be a mis-match, with leaf springs.
Whars up with that?

I speculate that it was replaced at the site, to get to move to the shops...Like the other preps to make it ready to move....
Keep the ideas, coming...

Wes C.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/16 17:26 by wcamp1472.

Could have even been a shifted load on a passing train.