Steam & Excursion > The official Weyerhaeuser 108 Thread

Howdy all,

The time is now to finally spill the beans so to speak regarding the sale on the part of Northwest Railway Museum of 2-6-6-2T mallet 108 to Black Hills Central.  For the record, this deal has been in the works for over a year and marks another milestone in the continued success and Renaissance that has been happening in Snoqualmie over the last twenty years. I have pasted our institution's official statement regarding the transaction below.  Personally, I find this type of deal very rewarding, as this important locomotive will be cared for by a respectable institution, at the same time giving NWRM additional resources to continue our steam locomotive rebuilding efforts on NP 924 and CC 14.  Collecting in the name of preservation with no real workable plan for restoring, stabilizing, or other meaningful treatment is not the answer for our railroad heritage.  Currently NWRM is on a major program of rebuilding its passenger car fleet, two steam locomotives to service, and continuing to improve our museum facility with more exhibits, more restored artifacts on display, and building our new Railway Education Center, the third new building in our museum complex.  For those of you who have not visited in the last few years, come ride with us and let us show you what the power of teamwork, discipline, and motivation can do.  Thank you for your interest in our endeavors, and I hope to see you all in Snoqualmie.  

Best,

Stathi

________________________________________________
Efstathios I. Pappas, MS
Curator of Collections
Northwest Railway Museum



Responsibly managing a museum collection means that some artifacts are added to the collection and at other times they are removed. In short, the Collection changes to meet the needs of the institution and its Mission.
At the Northwest Railway Museum two of the criteria used to evaluate the collection are support of the Mission and redundancy. A decade ago, a number of large artifacts including an electric locomotive from Utah, a coach from the Midwest, and a steam locomotive from California were deaccessioned (removed) from the Collection. However, the process of evaluating the collection continues every day.

For more than 40 years, the Museum has had custody or ownership of three Mallet-type 2-6-6-2 steam locomotives. All three have a great deal in common: they operated in the Pacific Northwest; were built within a few years of each other, by the Baldwin Locomotive Works; are nearly identical in design and size; illustrate the same narrative (they tell the same story); and each require tremendous resources to properly care for. With those facts, the Museum Board of Trustees and Staff reached a consensus to deaccession one 2-6-6-2 Mallet steam locomotive. So which one?The 108 was chosen as the locomotive to deaccession. The 108 was built in 1926 and served the Weyerhaeuser Timber Company until 1954. It is a tank engine (think Thomas the Tank Engine!) and aside from a tender, locomotive 6 (one of the other Mallets in the Museum collection) is nearly identical. (Locomotive 11 is also a 2-6-6-2 Mallet. It is a slightly different design, and is a tank engine converted to a tender engine. It is owned by Washington State Parks under the curatorship of the Northwest Railway Museum. It remains on exhibit at the Snoqualmie Depot.)

As luck would have it, another heritage railway operates a locomotive nearly identical to locomotive 108. The Black Hills Central Railroad in Hill City and Keystone, South Dakota operates their 2-6-6-2T steam locomotive 110 in daily service on a more than 4% grade. Their long term plan called for acquisition of a second similar locomotive to allow for expansion, and better operational
coverage in the event of a mechanical problem or other issue. So the stage was set for an appropriate and welcome change in ownership that would assure a bright future for this valuable museum artifact. 
Speaking with Black Hills Central President Meg Warder shortly after a deal was reached stated, "the Black Hills Central Railroad ... is honored to have the opportunity to [acquire] and restore the Weyerhaeuser Timber Co #108 Baldwin from the Northwest Railway Museum. Our knowledgeable and dedicated crew will restore the engine back to its glory with the intention of having the engine in service by 2018. The #108 engine will proudly work alongside the BHCRR’s restored #110 Mallet, the current powerhouse of the Black Hills line."

Speaking while the loading process was underway, Northwest Railway Museum Executive Director Richard Anderson stated, "museum collections are dynamic and their size and scope must reflect the institution's available resources to care for it. We are delighted to have found a successful heritage railway willing to take on the massive undertaking of rehabilitating, restoring and operating this impressive historical artifact."

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Thanks for the update. It is a win-win situation, and good news!
Good things are happening at Northwest Railway Museum!

John

Good to see that the Snoqualmie group is finally making some good descisions!  Congratulations!

Pete Replinger

Stathi, this was a right and professional decision by all, no matter what other websites might be saying. A collection that can evolve, educate, and restore is better than one that is sitting turning into rust dust.....(think southern Oregon).

Congratulations

Posted from iPhone

Just great to see one of the three back running again. You want time flies? It's been over forty years since we
put the 11 back in operation, hopefully that happens again some day.

Out

CPRR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stathi, this was a right and professional decision
> by all, no matter what other websites might be
> saying. A collection that can evolve, educate, and
> restore is better than one that is sitting turning
> into rust dust.....(think southern Oregon).
>
> Congratulations
>
> Posted from iPhone

Can you say Kempner 

As a volunteer and member of the Northwest Railway Museum, I can say in my own personal opinion and view that I'm personally deeply disappointed in this decision by the Northwest Railway Museum management and board of trustees.

While collection management is something every museum must focus on and can be a often a tough decision to make, respect must be given to the members and volunteers of the organization to allow a fair, open and transparent discussion and process to take place in regards to the topic of deaccession. Withholding information, ideas and lying to volunteers and members creates nothing but a toxic and unwelcoming environment to those who want to contribute to the success of a organization.

While deaccessioning must occasionally occur, a appropriate decision must be made in regards to where a object will be transferred or sold to.Sending the 108 to Black Hills Central Railroad was not a right decision, nor can it be considered preservation. Will the locomotive be preserved and restored to preservation standards that it would have received had it stayed at the Northwest Railway Museum, I can personally say no in my own opinion and views.

Removing the 108 from the Pacific Northwest and transferring it to South Dakota defeats the purpose and goals of preservation.

Disagree with me if you want on this, but how much equipment at the Black Hills is correctly restored appropriately or correctly? Any correct and appropriate lettering and paint colors? Nope. A logging 2-6-6-2 pulling a train of former interurban cars is also not preservation nor appropriate interpretation of the locomotive's history.

The locomotive would have been much better off receiving a cosmetic restoration and being placed on display at the museum's Railway History Center or at the Depot in Snoqualmie.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I also don't see the Black Hills Central Railroad as a registered 501c3 Non Profit organization.

It is disappointing that something such as this had to occur, hopefully things can move forward and this can be a lesson studied and learned from.

Daniel C

Playing devil's advocate here; don't take it personally:


bn6363 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a volunteer and member of the Northwest Railway
> Museum, I can say in my own personal opinion and
> view that I'm personally deeply disappointed in
> this decision by the Northwest Railway Museum
> management and board of trustees.
>
> While deaccessioning must occasionally occur, a
> appropriate decision must be made in regards to
> where a object will be transferred or sold
> to.Sending the 108 to Black Hills Central Railroad
> was not a right decision, nor can it be considered
> preservation. Will the locomotive be preserved and
> restored to preservation standards that it would
> have received had it stayed at the Northwest
> Railway Museum, I can personally say no in my own
> opinion and views.

Really?  And when was that going to occur at NWRM?

> Removing the 108 from the Pacific Northwest and
> transferring it to South Dakota defeats the
> purpose and goals of preservation.
>
> Disagree with me if you want on this, but how much
> equipment at the Black Hills is correctly restored
> appropriately or correctly? Any correct and
> appropriate lettering and paint colors? Nope. A
> logging 2-6-6-2 pulling a train of former
> interurban cars is also not preservation nor
> appropriate interpretation of the locomotive's
> history.
>
> The locomotive would have been much better off
> receiving a cosmetic restoration and being placed
> on display at the museum's Railway History Center
> or at the Depot in Snoqualmie.

Again, I have to ask:  When was that going to happen?
Next week?  Next year?  Next decade?

> Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I also
> don't see the Black Hills Central Railroad as a
> registered 501c3 Non Profit organization.
>
> It is disappointing that something such as this
> had to occur, hopefully things can move forward
> and this can be a lesson studied and learned
> from.
>
> Daniel C

The lesson is that this is why museums have Boards.
To make decisions that volunteers and members cannot
make and should not make.  That is anarchy.

Yes, mistakes and bad choices DO get made, and that is
why members get to vote on directors, not on their decisions.

Once again, I have to ask, how long has that locomotive been
sitting there?  How much have YOU done to preserve it or
improve it?

Where was it on the priority list for restoration (cosmetic
or operating)?

Would you feel better if it was left as-is, where-is for
another 10, 20, 30, or 50 years?

Would the locomotive be better off if that happened?


 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/16 15:03 by Realist.

Sure looked like a win-win to me, but what do I know?  I was getting kind of jazzed about venturing
up to the Black Hills Central. I'd sure like to see one or two of those things working their guts 
out on the mountain railroad at BHC. 

Boy that UP better not sell off any more SW1500s, those are SP museum pieces! Uh, it's a locomotive,
if someone has use for it beyond sitting somewhere doing nothing, that's life. Why shouldn't it be repurposed
and put back in use? Just because it worked that area of Washington? Who is to say that it should do nothing
but sit and rot?

Out

The_Chief_Way Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sure looked like a win-win to me, but what do I
> know?  I was getting kind of jazzed about
> venturing
> up to the Black Hills Central. I'd sure like to
> see one or two of those things working their
> guts 
> out on the mountain railroad at BHC. 

I would say win-win-win. Both of the organizations and the locomotive itself are all coming out ahead.

In my opinion, this was the absolute right decision on the part of the board at NWRM!! There are two other mallets in the collection as was mentioned in the museums blog post announcement. The 6 and the 11 and the 11 is basically the 108s twin. I have grown up with my father being involved back in the 80s firing and operating both the 11 and the 70 when it was there and have seen the struggles and challenges over the years at the museum since having to move out of the Nimblock yard in the early 90s. After the Nimblock yard eviction, the railroad almost ceased to exist. I have watched great things happen with the railroad however with new directions and great accomplishments since Richard Anderson took over and now there is a beautiful shop, a train shed to store and preserve much of the collection and has created a museum the public can tour, and now a collections library about to be built. And with the addition of Stathi Pappas to lead the way and creating a steam program, the NP 924 is getting close to operate after years of being stored in the dead line with the 14 soon after to have her turn getting a rebuild to operation. The liquidation of the 108 locomotive was the right decision and it is great to hear they plan on returning her to operation as she well deserves to be. I look forward to many more of the exciting things developing and in the works at the NWRM. With the help of the great volunteers there, and the leadership of Richard Anderson and Stathi Pappas it will be exciting to see everything slowly but surely receiving its long awaited attention for preservation in the collection in Snoqualmie.

Paul Moser

Posted from iPhone

I too will give this venture a WIN-WIN!!! Having personally worked on the restoration of quite a few steam locomotives in my time(some famous more than others). I've watched the sickening deteriation of that entire collection up at Snoqualie for going on 50 years with little or no regard for their preservation or upkeep! Hell, some of it is now so bad I'd be afraid to move it! At least now it will be well cared for by a "class act" of a great tourist railroad where it will please generations for years to come, no matter what she's pulling!!. And it won't have to suffer the salty and severe rainy weather of the Puget Sound area by being left outside to rot!...............Just my opinion!.....AND KUDOS TO NWRM!

That engine should be steaming in the Douglass fir forests in Washington.  But if given the choice between rusting away in Washington and being restored and operated in South Dakota, I definitely prefer the latter!  Great news and congratulations!

Stan

Black Hills pine is quite nice for steam and smoke to drift through as well.

A steam Engine doing what it was designed to do is always better than stufted and mounted.
Steve

wpjones Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A steam Engine doing what it was designed to do is
> always better than stufted and mounted.
> Steve

And this one wasn't either one.  Look at the photos.

I'm sure this was not a decision made lightly, and obviously
one person is upset about it.

That is why museums have boards:  To make the inevitable,
tough decisions that have to be made when the place is on
the verge of becoming an eyesore.

In my experience, the radical fundamentalist preservationists
in this hobby have let far too many pieces return to rust under
the guise of "protecting the historic fabric."  Protecting it from
what?  What it was designed and built to do or a version thereof?

If a person is that upset, then he should have come forward and
bought it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/16 18:02 by Realist.

Realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wpjones Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A steam Engine doing what it was designed to do
> is
> > always better than stufted and mounted.
> > Steve
>
> And this one wasn't either one.  Look at the
> photos.
>
> I'm sure this was not a decision made lightly, and
> obviously
> one person is upset about it.
>
> That is why museums have boards:  To make the
> inevitable,
> tough decisions that have to be made when the
> place is on
> the verge of becoming an eyesore.
>
> In my experience, the radical fundamentalist
> preservationists
> in this hobby have let far too many pieces return
> to rust under
> the guise of "protecting the historic fabric." 
> Protecting it from
> what?  What it was designed and built to do or a
> version thereof?
>
> If a person is that upset, then he should have
> come forward and
> bought it.


Well said Realist! Good form!

The best way to preserve a piece of equipment is to make it functional/keep it functional.   The effort that goes into keeping a piece of machinery functional generally preserves the useful life of that equipment in the process.   I used to live in North Bend, WA for several years and at the time this museum was basically just barely maintaining the tourist train and not really restoring/preserving much other than the equipment that was being used for the tourist operation and the station in Snoqualmie.  While that alone took a great deal of effort from many volunteers, they had a long line of equipment that was just rusting/rotting away.   The current museum is much different and much improved relative to restoring equipment.   They can't possibly restore everything that they have and time is running out for some of the equipment that has been sitting still for 50 years.   It's a do or die for that equipment as much longer and there is no way to justify restoration any longer so tough decisions have to be made.  

I support the thinning of the herd approach to some degree if it means sending unrestored equipment to someone who can be counted on to restore it when it otherwise would not be (or if it was to be restored that would mean another piece of historic equipment could not).   Time will obviously tell if this was the correct decision but action is better than no action in a case like this.

Thanks for sharing the news with us here on T.O.

I offer as evidence the photos of the locomotive as it's being loaded to show
how well it has been "preserved" to date.  That is not a swipe at the
museum, just a back-of-the-hand to the whiner who can't stand to
see it have a better future than could reasonably be expected if the
deal didn't go through.

I notice one of them repeated his rant on another board and got about
as much sympathy there as here. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/16 13:11 by Realist.