Steam & Excursion > About Steam Experts

A few days ago, debesade put out the news that the Union Pacific 4-8-4 #844 is under steam once again.  What followed was an overwhelming response from all kinds of members here on T.O.  I am amazed at the number of people who almost claimed to be "experts" giving their opinions.  However I do believe that Mr. Wes Camp made some very interesting valid points in that no one today knows everything about steam engines and that all the real experts are long gone now operating their steam engines up in the sky.  Anyhow, I don't know most of you who responded; I'd be curious as to who is Realist.  I will say only this, I agree with Mr. Camp.  A couple of years ago I was up at Strasburg, Pennsylvania at the Strasburg Railroad where they operate and maintain a number of steam locomotives.  These folks have also performed many tasks in the rebuilding of additional steam engines for other owners.  I spoke to a gentleman who is quite versed in the operation and upkeep of their steam engines at Strasburg and he does not​ consider himself an expert in that he told me one continues to learn with each restoration and rebuild of a locomotive.  I agree with him 100%.  I have known several guys who have worked with Mr. Ross Rowland through the years and these guys helped restore Reading 2101 and C&O 614.  From everything that I know about Mr. Rowland and these other guys, they too do not feel that they are experts yet they have much experience.  As I have stated before; I'm an elderly guy now myself; I've ridden behind many main line steam engines in excursion service and I have learned some things about these beasts.  Even though I probably will not be able to get out west to see the Union Pacific #844 run again, I truly do wish them the best and hope that this fine engine will be running on the main lines shortly.
​John in White Marsh, Maryland

I believe you need to get your facts straight, but alas I am no expert.

I do not see anywhere in any post anyone claiming that he is an expert or an almost expert.

 

I've worked on steam, run steam, made it run, and Wes has forgotten more than I'll ever know. I haven't been around
big steam with modern appliances, it's a whole different world. But I do know proper work techniques which apply to most
if not all steam but that hardly makes me an expert. I'm not even sure how you'd define "steam expert", we're just a bunch
of guys who want to see this all done right. The alternative would have grave consequences.

Out

A friend of mine says an "expert" is someone who is more than 50 miles from home.
I have NEVER considered myself anything near to being an expert.  I do posess knowledge of machining techniques and knowledge of how a steam locomotive works. 
As 1522's CMO, I tried to read everything I could about shop techniques, troubleshooting and maintenance.  I had a circle of folks that I trusted who I could call for consultation, such as Doyle, Steve Lee (yes THAT Steve Lee),Linn Moedinger and several others.  I never felt the slightest bit embarrassed to have to ask questions.  I don't feel anyone in the steam "industry" should feel shame for doing that.  That's what its all about, not ego pumping, dictating, micromanaging or other useless traits.  After all, these aren't toys and a catastrophe could impact the entire steam industry in the USA.  Nothing beats experience, hands on and having someone you can ask when in doubt.
Short answer.  NO I am not an expert.  Even though I'm "retired" as is my engine, I still ask questions and keep an eye on what's going on.
I liken steam locomotives to motorcycles.  When you get cocky and think you've got it mastered, it will bite you in the ass.

My father always told this about experts. An "ex" is a "Has-been", and a "spurt" is "a drip under pressure".

Looking through all the posts, I don't recall anyone claiming to be a expert. The facts were laid out once again not opinion's. You should wish them all the luck because they are going to need it.

CS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/16 11:43 by CaliforniaSteam.

The only one I know who truly considers himself a steam
expert is coming up on 3 years of having nothing running except his mouth and imagination
since his expertise was applied to a steam locomotive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/16 10:43 by Realist.

Problem is, for every experieinced steam veteran who posts here,
there are several others who refuse to make themselves the targets
of the kind of foolishness exhibited too often.

There are also charlatans about the land who snake charm their way into projects until the money runs out.  But we don't count them as experts.

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe you need to get your facts straight, but
> alas I am no expert.
>
> I do not see anywhere in any post anyone claiming
> that he is an expert or an almost expert.
>

For the people who have followed the saga of UP 844 and Ed Dickens since the Texas flat spot incident in 2012, they should no longer be asking the question "who's the expert?" It has been discussed numerous times already. IT IS A DEAD HORSE.

Facts, opinions, and the kitchen sink have been discussed regarding Ed Dickens and UP Steam, yet people are still searching for "experts?" How about focusing on the information presented, whether they agree with the information or not? Do we have that many speed readers who don't pay attention, or are people SO biased that they skip reading what they don't want to see?

People are falling for the classic bias trap. They want to know WHO they are listening to before forming their opinions instead of the other way around. When they do that, they risk ignoring facts. Happens in politics all the time.
 

Re above..
A famous quote comes to mind..." There is none so blind, as those who will not see..."

There is zero chance that things, from now-on, for 844 will go swimmingly, with no future disasters.
So far, the kinds of things ( failures, etc.) that will happen, have a way of being bigger than any previous failure...

W.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/16 19:40 by wcamp1472.

I like it!

ecoyote Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My father always told this about experts. An "ex"
> is a "Has-been", and a "spurt" is "a drip under
> pressure".

Frisco1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are also charlatans about the land who snake
> charm their way into projects until the money runs
> out.  But we don't count them as experts.

:-)

Some years ago a CMO who was standing next to his 2-8-0 told me that about the time you think you just might know something about a steam locomotive - you were about to find that you didn't.

Posted from iPhone

If writing personal checks to pay the bills that have kept a list of steamers running since 1964 can qualify me as an "expert" than I guess I'll have to accept that moniker??? There's a VERY valid reason that steam locomotives are always  addressed in the female gender and that is that they are easy to fall in love with,... and impossible to accurately predict one day to the next.  That truth was driven home to me in the 1960's when we leased the late George Hart's 2 G-5 Pacifics ( 1238&1286) to pull some HICO mainline excursions. On paper they were identical twins in every respect. On the road they were night & day different. No matter who crewed the 1238 she was VERY difficult to get hot and maintain full pressure at track speed. We tried everything, from the obvious to the sublime and it made no difference. Her identical twin the 1286..... you had to be careful or she'd lift her first safety even at full throttle and track speed. Go figure !!!!

     Truth is that they are wonderfully complex machines who fascinate and entertain nearly all who witness their passing.  And for we few who have been chosen ( blessed or cursed depending on your point of view) to be their caretakers they represent a lifelong calling second to none !!  Just ask my 4 ex-significant others all of whom left on account of being second fiddle to some damn steam machine !!!

    And so it was moving west !!  Ross Rowland

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Re above..
> A famous quote comes to mind..." There is none so
> blind, as those who will not see..."
>
> There is zero chance that things, from now-on, for
> 844 will go swimmingly, with no future disasters.
> So far, the kinds of things ( failures, etc.) that
> will happen, have a way of being bigger than any
> previous failure...
>
> W.


Especially the ones who's ego is so big and thinks they're like God and never makes a mistake even though that always happens and they never admit it! That Denver Trip to me sees and embarassing incident happening!

Posted from Android

Mr Rowland, while your sacrafice was huge (x4!), the entire steam world is in debt to you for all the wonderful steam action you have provided for us.....even if you did it all for yourself.  Of course there are others, many others, we are equally in debt to for what they have given us in steam.  I grew up in the steam era, and was somewhere north of 5 years old before I ever saw one of those stink boxes....how I miss those days of being able to spot a train by the plume of smoke in the distance.  AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

I'm not all that big on steam tourist runs having seen the last of the SP steam in freight revenue service. But Ross'
efforts with the 614 and those strings of hopper cars were something to behold! Yup Mr. Rowland, definite bit of joy
to my heart.

Out

Re: My essay on so-called 'steam experts'...

Like all rules, this one has an exception.....
I can unequivocally declare that Ross Rowland IS The Steam Expert...

No one in the steam locomotive world, in the past 50 years, even comes close to Ross in steam experience, financial support, mechanical knowledge, showmanship, and all-around steam loco operations, restoration and preservation.

He has single-handedly written many checks, is the source of inspiration for the restoration of every single steam loco operating during those years.
( Save for the Historic &  formerly successful program run by te U.P. RR, & NOW that has all changed ----- when 844 was parked years ago with a boiler choked with mud..)..

Ross has rebuilt many locos, is an FRA licensed engineer. He has run engines over many miles in this land and has personally mentored many steam restoration specialists...including Steve Wickersham, Scott Lindsay, Doyle McCormack and an
ever-expanding pool of wonderful, talented steam technicians.

Everybody that enjoys mainline steam today, needs to personally thank Ross for the very existence today's mainline steam excursions.  You have NO IDEA of the trials, fights, struggles and betrayals Ross has had to go through, and you have no idea about how proud he is of many of his "greatest hits"...

Ross gave the 'gift of belief' to former Chairman & CEO of the N& W Railroad, Bob Claytor --- who later enabled the restoration of the J to steam, followed by the Class A.  Ross was a close ally to the Wesren Maryland's former president, George Leilich.
Ross was friend of F. Nelson Blount.... The list goes on ...... And then there's whole American Freedom Train experience....

So, to have accomplished so much in his life, he can RIGHTLY claim the title of Steam Locomotive Expert.
Name one person who can measure-up to Ross's accomplishments, since 1964.
( or even comes close...).

The explosion in interest in in OPERATING steam engines owes its existence to one man.

Like in the words of  "This is my fight song"......
 " I might have but one match, but I can make an explosion ...."

Ross's "match" continues to burn brightly.

Thank you deeply, Ross.  May God continue to grant you a long adventuresome life...

W.
 

After reading all the replies on here, and especially reading what Wes has stated, I agree with him about Ross Rowland.  I too met Ross back in 1975 when I went down to the Riverside B&O Roundhouse near Ft. McHenry in South Baltimore, Maryland.  Ross was hard at work along with many volunteers restoring the former Reading Railroad T-1 #2101 to be the American Freedom Train Steam Engine #1.  I got to see first hand over the next several years the complete dedication that he gave to operate that locomotive with the AFT and then with the Chessie Steam Special Train.  Wes is 100% correct in that Ross is truly a "Steam Expert."  I've ridden many steam excursions with Ross as the engineer.  Thank you Ross for everything that you have done to enhance Main Line Steam and let's hope that it will not be too much longer before C&O 614 is shining the rails once again.
John in White Marsh, Maryland