Steam & Excursion > AFT 1

This question may have been brought up once before, so forgive me if I'm rehashing it, but there's a few questions I have concerning the AFT 1 at the B&O Railroad Museum.

1. Even though the chances of the museum releasing it are between zero and sub zero, if it could be done....where would be the best place to take it?

2. Would repainting it into it's AFT colors work, or would it be better to paint it back to the way it was when it was pulled from the scrap yard 40+ years ago? 

3.  Would a cosmetic resto. be the way to go and then display it INSIDE somewhere or if a host railroad could be found, is it still mechanically sound enough to do a complete rebuild to operate?

Before I get flamed, let me just say that I realize these three questions aren't even a scratch on the surface of the many thousands that would need to be addressed for something like this to happen no matter how terrible the odds are. Seeing that locomotive sitting there at a museum of all places rusting like it is makes me wonder about the mentality of those running the place. They can't or won't do anything about it's current condition, but they don't wont anyone else or any other group to come in and volunteer their time, money and expertise to do anything either even if they're willing to sign a waiver to release the museum of any liablity to work on it. Anyway, I'd like all of us to have a freindly discussion on this. Ideas and opinions are welcomed. 

Thank you Apollo17 for your interest.  To start with; the 2101 should be restored at least cosmetically and I personally do not care whether it would be as the American Freedom Engine #1, as the Chessie Steam Special #2101, or back to its original Reading 2101.  The important thing is that once looking attractive that the complete history of this engine be told on a plaque to show everyone interested in railroad history the complete story.  The engine should be on a prominent display somewhere, and since the B&O R.R. Museum has horrible uninformed, care less about history management, somehow this locomotive should be sent elsewhere, maybe even up to Strasburg, Pennsylvania to the museum there to let folks see and understand the history of the Reading Railroad in Pennsylvania.
​As far as running it once again; yes, it could be accomplished; however at a tremendous cost, and since both the Reading T-1's 2100 and 2102 are now in the process of being restored for operation, do we really need to spend that kind of money for the 2101?  Besides, there are so many other restorations that need to take place.  For one thing, I'd give anything to see the management of the B&O Railroad Museum changed completely and get some people in there who understand and appreciate the real history, who would allow folks to belong to the museum and who would come and work on restoration projects such as the many original B&O passenger cars that are sitting there also being left to rust away.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

Good points John. It probably would be better to have it on display rather than operational. As you said 2100 and 02 are already in the works for reactivation.

Wasn't the reason that Ross got the 614 in trade for the 2101 was that the roundhouse fire caused frame issues that would have made repair problematic?

Posted from iPhone

MSchwiebert Wrote:
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> Wasn't the reason that Ross got the 614 in trade
> for the 2101 was that the roundhouse fire caused
> frame issues that would have made repair
> problematic?

That roundhouse fire did NOT cause "frame issues", but caused enough other damage that the trade for C&O 614 was worked out.

MSchwiebert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wasn't the reason that Ross got the 614 in trade
> for the 2101 was that the roundhouse fire caused
> frame issues that would have made repair
> problematic?
>
> Posted from iPhone
​No, not the frame.  The 614 is a complete roller bearing engine, the 2101 is not.  It was not actually determined that the 2101 could not be repaired for operation by the FRA or any other body.  I think since there had been some problems with one of the bearings on one of the drivers that with all the other problems, a cosmetic restoration was the better solution and so Ross was able to send the 2101 to the B&O Railroad Museum in turn for the ex-C&O 614.  The B&O R.R. Museum was supposed to maintain the 2101 as AFT #1, putting it in a quality spot for the public to learn about its rich history and as I have stated many times here on T.O., the museum has the wrong people in charge.  All one has to do is go visit the museum for yourself, look at all the equipment rusting away in the front yard even though there have been people willing to work on this equipment, and you will agree that the present management of the museum must go.  Surely there are more well educated knowledgeable people who can do a much better job of running that place.
John

Who is the decision maker/makers at the museum? Is it one individual or a group? What is the mission they are governed by? I've read your statements about their incalcitrance and being uncooperative with outsiders,why is this so? Where do they derive their power? How could it change? Why does it need to change? Not being a troll here,just curious.  

towazy Wrote:
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> Who is the decision maker/makers at the museum? Is
> it one individual or a group? What is the mission
> they are governed by? I've read your statements
> about their incalcitrance and being uncooperative
> with outsiders,why is this so? Where do they
> derive their power? How could it change? Why does
> it need to change? Not being a troll here,just
> curious.  
Courtney Wilson, Executive Director
David Shackelford, Curator
B&O Railroad Museum
​901 West Pratt Street
Baltimore, MD 21223-2699
Why don't you and others here on T.O. write to them and complain and see if you receive any reply?  Keep your letter short and to the point  and complain about how poorly things look out in the yard and how they will NOT maintain these historic pieces.  You probably will not hear back from them.
​John

And mention that you're AFT alumni- a bit of cred couln't hurt.
Good luck w that!
SR

1. August 1981
2. May 2016
 

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As of 2014 they had $24 million
http://www.borail.org/annualreport_20141.pdf

Also go to www.borail.org for the entire board of directors list, and names of all people who donate

Posted from iPhone

Keep in mind that the C&O 2-6-6-2 now undergoing restoration by the WMSR was liberated from that collection, as was Western Maryland #6 now operating at Cass...so it is possible to deaccession pieces.

Posted from iPhone

Finderskeepers Wrote:
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> Keep in mind that the C&O 2-6-6-2 now undergoing
> restoration by the WMSR was liberated from that
> collection, as was Western Maryland #6 now
> operating at Cass...so it is possible to
> deaccession pieces.
>
These are also reputable organizations which likely submitted detailed proposals which contained legitimate plans for the future care and feeding of the locomotives involved. I would assume that lack of such a legitimate suitor and corresponding proposal is the reason that the engine is still at B&O.  2101/AFT1 may be in rough shape, but she's better off than she would be were she to be acquired by a group of well-meaning novices (aka foamers) with lots of gusto and emotion, but not much else, and taken someplace and disassembled with no plan for re-assembly.  This is assuming that said group can produce the money needed to move the engine to begin with.  

Worthington_S_A Wrote:
> These are also reputable organizations which
> likely submitted detailed proposals which
> contained legitimate plans for the future care and
> feeding of the locomotives involved. I would
> assume that lack of such a legitimate suitor and
> corresponding proposal is the reason that the
> engine is still at B&O.  2101/AFT1 may be in
> rough shape, but she's better off than she would
> be were she to be acquired by a group of
> well-meaning novices (aka foamers) with lots of
> gusto and emotion, but not much else, and taken
> someplace and disassembled with no plan for
> re-assembly.  This is assuming that said group
> can produce the money needed to move the engine to
> begin with.  
​Meanwhile she sits there and collects rust, her history not told, thousands of visitors see her as a rust bucket and have no idea of all the history with this engine.  Surely she would be better off up at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg cosmetically restored.

ClubCar Wrote:

> ​Meanwhile she sits there and collects rust, her
> history not told, thousands of visitors see her as
> a rust bucket and have no idea of all the history
> with this engine.  Surely she would be better off
> up at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in
> Strasburg cosmetically restored.

Has the RRMPA made a proposal?

Worthington_S_A Wrote:

> Has the RRMPA made a proposal?
​Who Knows?  However from speaking with some fellows in Strasburg, I've been told that they would like to have one of the Reading T-1's there since the Reading was a major railroad of Pennsylvania and the Reading T-1's pulled so many freight and passenger trains in that state.  Makes sense to me, but again who knows and who would pay for the movement?  I've given my opinion on here many times regarding this engine and the other related equipment at the B&O R.R. Museum.  I do not know the terms that Ross Rowland made with the museum when he gave them the 2101; however I'd bet the farm that he never dreamed that the museum would allow this engine to just rust away.  I do not know whether or not the museum was given any money with the locomotive to help maintain it.  However I do know that when the passenger car company called RailRoad Passenger Cars (RRP) donated their ex-B&O passenger cars and another car called the "Leonard J. Buxton" that RRP also gave the museum money that was supposed to be used to maintain those cars, and it has not been done.  What did they use that money for?   They refuse to tell anyone.  Enough said.
John

If 2101 were to be moved out of the museum, wouldn't it have to be towed from there to any destination on CSX track? I guess if things were to get to that point, costs could be worked up to place it on a special flat car for towing. As crazy as this may sound, what about the possibility of finding out if the museum would be willing to sell it if a credible fundraising effort and long term plan were to be presented? Would Strasburg really be willing to take 2101?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/16 14:40 by apollo17.

I do a lot of grant writing for a city in Pennsylvania and every once in a while I see some "Preserve America" or "Restore America" funding opportunities come through.  This may be an option but the applicant has to be a private non profit organization and a 501c 3. Enough money would have to be raised to create the 501 c 3 and then community partners including the museum and whatever organization would end up with the 2101 would have to be a partner as well as the community it would be housed in for public display would have to benefit and create a historic piece of history to draw people to that community. Then goals, time lines and measurables would have to be developed.  Estimates of movement and placement and cosmetic restoration would have to be spelled out and included in the time line. No salaries can usually be drawn from these grants. They are usually 3 year grants.  Or you can always go the route of trying to  find a private foundation with ties to the locomotive and would be willing to sponsor the proposal. It may be a pipe dream but could certainly be possible, similar to what is going on with the 2100. 
Just a thought..

Jim Gress

What was the deal with the rod(s)?  Does she have the bent rod or cosmetic replica?

Who cares? We're talking about stabilizing and preserving it, not operating it.

As to CSX, they didn't flinch at moving 2100 on flat cars.