Steam & Excursion > Mars Lights

When i was railfanning in the Chicago area in the 1950's. every Nickel Plate Berkshire had a Mars light, yet I think it was a correct decision to leave it off of the restoration of 765.  In the same period many CB&Q steam locomotive had Mars lights added, but it would seem any restoration should omit them.  So I think maybe the same reasoning would apply to 844. 

Louis Cerny

LTCerny Wrote:
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> When i was railfanning in the Chicago area in the
> 1950's. every Nickel Plate Berkshire had a Mars
> light, yet I think it was a correct decision to
> leave it off of the restoration of 765.  In the
> same period many CB&Q steam locomotive had Mars
> lights added, but it would seem any restoration
> should omit them.  So I think maybe the same
> reasoning would apply to 844. 
>
> Louis Cerny

First, all Mars Signal lights are NOT the same. For specific examples, both the NKP and CB&Q had Mars Signal lights that could be manually operated, by the Engineer, with "white" headlight lenses for continuous running, day or night. In the case of an emergency air brake application, they would change to red.

On the other hand, the type of Mars Signal used by the UP, was ONLY red, and although could be turned on by the Engineer, it was primarily only used/turned on, by an emergency air brake application.

Then there is the type of Mars Signal light used on SP 4449, which has NO red indication, and is NOT activated by an emergency air brake application. As with the headlight, the Fireman has complete control of the Mars light, and can even stop its figure 8 oscillation pattern, with the light still on, and can even "inch" the drive motor in order to point/shine the light at a specific spot on the right-of-way.

All that being said, the Fort Wayne RR Historical Society folks have chosen to have  NKP 765 appear as delivered, i.e. NO Mars Signal light. Not to mention, they had some mechanical issues with their Mars light, plus had to have a whole new smokebox door manufactured, which means that there are no longer any mounting holes for the Mars light bracket anyway! I really do see them drilling holes in the new smokebox door, just to satisfy a railfans, but that is my opinion.

And some of the so-called Mars lights are not Mars lights at all.
They are Pyle-National Gyralights.

Realist Wrote:
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> And some of the so-called Mars lights are not Mars
> lights at all.
> They are Pyle-National Gyralights.

Correct, especially in the "diesel era". I can remember being in the Sales Engineering Department at EMD, from 1972 thru 1974, some customers did not want to pay the price for the Mars Signal Light component. Either that or, the Pyle-National Salesman was better at selling their version of the oscillating lights.

HotWater Wrote:
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> On the other hand, the type of Mars Signal used by
> the UP, was ONLY red, and although could be turned
> on by the Engineer, it was primarily only
> used/turned on, by an emergency air brake
> application.

Hotwater, 

Thanks for the reminder what purpose of the the red light on 844 is/was for. 
However, on further thought, what is the purpose of signaling an Emergency which is such a rare event?  
Who is going to see it and what would they do with the information?

Dennis Livesey
New York, NY

ChooChooDennis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > On the other hand, the type of Mars Signal used
> by
> > the UP, was ONLY red, and although could be
> turned
> > on by the Engineer, it was primarily only
> > used/turned on, by an emergency air brake
> > application.
>
> Hotwater, 
>
> Thanks for the reminder what purpose of the the
> red light on 844 is/was for. 
> However, on further thought, what is the purpose
> of signaling an Emergency which is such a rare
> event?  

What makes you think that an emergence air brake application is a "rare event"?

> Who is going to see it and what would they do with
> the information?

Railroads with extensive mileage of double track main lines, i.e. UP, AT&SF, CB&Q, C&NW, CMStP&P, NKP, etc. had the Mars Red Signal Light installed in order to protect against an opposing train running into derailed rolling stock that might be interfering with the adjacent main line track. Thus, the red light stayed on, until the entire train was inspected with assurances that the adjacent main line track was indeed clear. At that point, the Engineer recovered his air brakes and reset the Mars Light. Operating rules dictated that an opposing train could NOT pass a train so long as the Red Mars Light was illuminated.

Those lights were used before radio.  When a train goes into emergency, it is usually not a good thing.  There will be men on the ground inspecting for broken air lines or worse, broken trains perhaps with something fouling an adjacent track.   The light is a signal to oncoming trains.  EMERGENCY.

I don't think I've seen a NKP steam locomotive with a red mars light. Their ALCO PAs had them for sure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/16 20:23 by Btrain.

ChooChooDennis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater 
> Thanks for the reminder what purpose of the the
> red light on 844 is/was for. 
> However, on further thought, what is the purpose
> of signaling an Emergency which is such a rare
> event?  
> Who is going to see it and what would they do with
> the information?
​The red Mars light on the UP locomotives were indeed head end flagging when there was an emergency application of the brakes. Opposing trains would stop before passing the red light.
​The light could also be manually activated by the crew when stopped on a mainline to pick up passengers when there was another mainline between them and the station. Also providing hed end flagging.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

On SP you could go by the head end past the red light without stopping at Restricted Speed.

Posted from Android

IMHO,

If a steam locomotive had an oscillating headlight, either Mars or Pyle, while it was in regular service, it should keep it and (with the exception of a red one) use it.

Not only is it the best safety device ever put on a locomotive (kept me from hitting a fuel truck one morning), but it is also a unique and historic component rarely seen these days.

Plus, there is the added safety component it provides with the population becoming dumber by the day.

 

So was 844's red mars light original to her when she was first built.  I thought it likely was but I wondered if my presumption was correct. 

Cumbres Wrote:
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> So was 844's red mars light original to her when
> she was first built.

No. not when she was first built in late 1945, but then she wasn't "built" as an oil burner either. This whole subject has been discussed at length on other threads here on the Steam Railroading board of TO.

 I thought it likely was but
> I wondered if my presumption was correct. 

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cumbres Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So was 844's red mars light original to her
> when
> > she was first built.
>
> No. not when she was first built in late 1945, but
> then she wasn't "built" as an oil burner either.
> This whole subject has been discussed at length on
> other threads here on the Steam Railroading board
> of TO.


Sorry, thought I had read most of the 844 threads but there a lot of them and I had never seen whether the Mars light was original.  I only knew from 1970 or so she had had it.  Thanks!

Metra seems to be big on Gyralites (or whatever brand it is).

Cumbres Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cumbres Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > So was 844's red mars light original to her
> > when
> > > she was first built.
> >
> > No. not when she was first built in late 1945,
> but
> > then she wasn't "built" as an oil burner
> either.
> > This whole subject has been discussed at length
> on
> > other threads here on the Steam Railroading
> board
> > of TO.
>
>
> Sorry, thought I had read most of the 844 threads
> but there a lot of them and I had never seen
> whether the Mars light was original.  I only knew
> from 1970 or so she had had it.  Thanks!

Installed in February, 1945, along with the wings.

NKP steam locomotive Mars lights had a clear lens only and were designed to be operated with or without oscillating. 
I grew up along NKP's 19th street running in Erie, PA and I remember as a little kid when NKP first applied the Mars lights.
I was standing track side after dark with my dad as an eastbound 700 came into view and the change was quite impressive.
If anyone had any doubt as to what was coming down that track with a bright light, the Mars light removed all doubt.
I remember my dads simple comment, "Wow, get out of my way".
Jim Kreider