Steam & Excursion > What if BNSF Purchases the ATSF 5000???

Here is one of those hypothetical post that ask- What if BNSF purchased that ATSF 5000? The City of Amarillo is accepting bids for the ATSF 5000.

Before I get to far into the weeds, I want to say that I think it is #$%^ as to what the City of Amarillo is trying to pull on the volunteers who where working on trying to restore the ATSF 5000. They deserve better.
 http://m.amarillo.com/news/2016-07-22/amarillo-officials-plan-sell-historic-madam-queen#gsc.tab=0

If BNSF where to purchase and restore the ATSF 5000, BNSF would have the largest operating steam locomotive (nearly 10 ft longer the then UP 844).  Imagine BNSF running excursions in and around the Cheyenne area.  BNSF would get a lot of PR out of the ATSF 5000- perhaps pulling Officers Special trains, Stock holder trains, VIP trips to special events, and on and on.  I thought Warren Buffet always wanted a steam locomotive!

 This would also spur the UP steam program to get moving the restoration of the 4014 (and perhaps the 3985).

I also believe that the City of Amarillo has pissed off the volunteers who where working to restore the locomotive, and with them gone it will spell an end for the restoration of the ATSF 5000. I think a BNSF sale would save the ATSF 5000 and would be is best avenue for returning to the rails.

To me the sale to BNSF makes sense. These are just my opinions, let me know what you think.

Scott.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/16 13:33 by scott9915.

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You must not be aware that the AT&SF 5000 is a plain bearing locomotive, i.e. NOT roller bearings, and the Mechanical Department of almost any railroad in the U.S. wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole! There are far better Santa Fe steam locomotive candidates available for potential excursions that the #5000.

Why would BNSF buy it if someone else will rebuild and  maintain it?  

Why would BNSF buy it when they don't even let 3751 run under its own power on its lines? A friend and I were discussing this yesterday. Let alone the fact it doesn't have roller bearings. Which is a mess of its own let alone boiler, drive gear, firebox issues and so on.

Posted from Android

upheritage6 Wrote:
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> Why would BNSF buy it when they don't even let
> 3751 run under its own power on its lines?

Just where did you hear THAT garbage?????

A
> friend and I were discussing this yesterday. Let
> alone the fact it doesn't have roller bearings.
> Which is a mess of its own let alone boiler, drive
> gear, firebox issues and so on.
>
> Posted from Android

Anyone know if the RFP has a minimum bid?  If not, bid $50K or so and buy the insurance to get it out of town....total not much more than a high end sports car.  Question then becomes where to put it and how/who would move it.  With the boiler jacket still on it, I'd guess there are asbestos issues and the city wants to get rid of the potential liability from that and who knows what else.  As to the volunteers,  when you work on something you don't own, stuff can happen.  Not necessarily fair but reality.

I'm kind of surprised 5000 wasn't converted to roller bearings.  At any rate, if the city is hell bent to be rid of her I hope somebody takes them up on it and moves it somewhere for display and care.
You can't restore everything.  3751 is viable and I guess the 2926 is coming along.
The ideal thing years ago would have been for the two engines at Belen to have been restored to service, which then would have been a no brainer.  They are kind of hulks now.  I know the ATSF towed the 2925 to Cleburne and estimated a huge cost to restore her.  I think it was just to shut people up and the RR wasn't really interested.  I know people, who were in the know, inspected the two engines when they still were stored in the roundhouse and commented that new flues or even a flue extension at that time and a little normal work, plus washing the pigeon guano off would have been all that was needed.
Would have been epic.

Any promotional value that BNSF might obtain by purchasing, overhauling, and running 5000 can be obtained with far less expense and general trouble by utilizing 3751 and (soon) 2926.  There is also 3415 in Kansas though the other two would make better candidates for big time excursion operations.  They can also utilize 261 because the public isn't really going to care what name is on the tender (and maybe you can slap a BNSF or northern lines precessor's logo on it).  There is just no reason for them to get in deeper than that. 

If someone were to obtain 5000 maybe they can persuade the company to make a modest donation but that would be about all I would expect.  That's not to say that if someone did make it run that they could not be persuaded to allow some operations on their lines but don't hold your breath about them being the instigator.  You could pretty much repeat this about just about any proposed restoration / operation.  Their duty is to their sharefholders (Berkshire Hathaway).

Edit to add:  4449 has plain bearings.  BNSF let it cross the country.  Not an issue when all is in good adjustment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/16 15:09 by filmteknik.

As a practice matter, IF BNSF wanted an operating steam locomotive for special service, why would they want an ATSF locomotive? I suspect they'd want a CBQ with the “Burlington Route" slogan.

As BNSF is a brand name resulting from consolidating a collection of many steam era railroads, doubt they'd want a heritage fleet big enough to have one from each. I presume they'd start with the "B".


Also, if Warren Buffet showed up inquiring if any park locomotives are for sale, reasonable minds should ask whether his railroad has steam rebuild and maintainance facilities and qualified personel. His railroad(s) got rid of that over 50 years ago.

Unlike other railroads that have diesel locomotives commemorating its prior railroad names and images, BNSF hasn't done this. BNSF hasn't yet done much in developing a heritage fleet, other than not yet painting over some of the prior BN and SF livery.

scott9915 Wrote:

> If BNSF where to purchase and restore the ATSF
> 5000, BNSF would have the largest operating steam
> locomotive (nearly 10 ft longer the then UP 844).

According to the Railroad Artifact Preservation Society, AT&SF 5000 is 108' 5 1/4" long:

https://railroadartifactpreservation.wordpress.com/2015/08/05/santa-fe-steam-locomotive-number-5000/

According to UP, 844 is 114' 2 5/8" long, or about 6 feet longer than 5000:

http://www.up.com/aboutup/special_trains/steam/locomotives/844.shtml

Santa Fe's 5011-class 2-10-4's with their 24,500 gallon, 8-axle tenders are about 10 feet longer than 844, but the 5000 is older and smaller than the 5011's.

filmteknik Wrote:
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> Edit to add:  4449 has plain bearings.  BNSF let
> it cross the country.  Not an issue when all is
> in good adjustment.

The 4449 is a very special case, mainly due to excellent track record, her experienced crew, and temperature monitoring for the 8 main driver crown bearings. I'll bet no other plain bearing locomotive would ever be allowed to do what 4449 has accomplished in these modern times. Railroad Mechanical Departments no longer have experienced personnel even remotely familiar with plain bearings. Thus, if it ain't roller bearing equipped, it sits!

The San Diego Electric Railway Association, based in the Historic 1882
California Southern/Santa Fe Depot in National City, Ca., hosted an event a few years ago 
and asked if BNSF could provide a locomotive to display. BNSF sent a new GE AC44whatever
diesel. The President at the time, initially asked if they could send a Warbonnet painted locomotive,
The Corporate answer that came back was "We No Longer Promote That Image" and sent the BNSF
painted unit!

Don't hold your breath for a BNSF owned/sponsored EX Santa Fe owned/operated steam locomotive 
to operate on the BNSF!

It would be nice, but its a major Pipe/Pie in the Sky Dream!!

Just my thoughts on the subject!

Mike

Any group with an operating plain bearing locomotive could just as easily add thermocouples and temperature sensors to their locomotive like Doyle and crew did and work up to a similar track record over time.  Just sayin'.  Nothing is impossible.

TrackGuy

TrackGuy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any group with an operating plain bearing
> locomotive could just as easily add thermocouples
> and temperature sensors to their locomotive like
> Doyle and crew did and work up to a similar track
> record over time.  Just sayin'.  Nothing is
> impossible.
>
> TrackGuy

And exactly which major class 1 railroad would be willing to take THAT sort of gamble?

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> filmteknik Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Edit to add:  4449 has plain bearings.  BNSF
> let
> > it cross the country.  Not an issue when all
> is
> > in good adjustment.
>
> The 4449 is a very special case, mainly due to
> excellent track record, her experienced crew, and
> temperature monitoring for the 8 main driver crown
> bearings. I'll bet no other plain bearing
> locomotive would ever be allowed to do what 4449
> has accomplished in these modern times. Railroad
> Mechanical Departments no longer have experienced
> personnel even remotely familiar with plain
> bearings. Thus, if it ain't roller bearing
> equipped, it sits!

4449 doesn't have regualr old plain bearings either. It has the SP Spring Pad Lubricators on the bearings which seem to have done their jobs pretty well over the years.

PHall Wrote:
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> 4449 doesn't have regualr old plain bearings
> either. It has the SP Spring Pad Lubricators on
> the bearings which seem to have done their jobs
> pretty well over the years.

Well yes, but the main driver axle bearings are indeed "plain bearings", i.e. not roller bearings. Truth be told, the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum folks up-graded the main driver axle bearings on both 630 and 4501 to the same pressure feed oil lubrication system design developed by SP, and still in use on 4449.

They don't know anything about steam so just give them what they want to see.  Rotating end caps!   Tack weld them on.

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     'Were' is it ?

All they need to do is to add Burlington Northern on the tender and paint a giant swoosh and it's all set for the BNSF folks!

Why would BNSF waste the money restoring and operating this or any other steam engine when they have well trained groups like the 4449, 700, and 261 just a phone call away, should they ever decide to run steam on employee specials or what not?