Steam & Excursion > Cumbres and Toltec advice wanted

My wife and I are contemplating a visit to the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad in 2017. We've never been there, and are looking for some input from those that have. What month would be best to go and ride? Is there a class of service that you would recommend? Lastly, which way and out of where is the most desirable train ride? Should we ride the whole line each way? Thanks in advance for any information.

You will get lots of opinions and they are all valid. It's hard to go wrong. But, we prefer to ride during the fall season, when the aspen are turning. We really enjoy riding west from Antonito, climbing steadily out of the valley and into the hills, topping Cumbres Pass and dropping down into Chama. We have a timeshare in Pagosa Springs, so we drive to Chama, ride the bus to Antonito and drive back to Pagosa from Chama.

Scott Hightower

many people like fall, summer is assume, better temps, green is good too.  I love thundershowers, longer days,  late june!  perhaps stay in chama ride east covering the whole line, maybe do some car chasing a dip or stay in  pagosa springs is nice.  Last year the had a discount thing , yearly pass for not much, perhaps what you would pay for a trip.  You probably want the upgrade to ride in the parlor car.

Or if your flush go to fireman school or rent a caboose if available.

My wife and I have rode it three times the last time this past September.

All three time we left from Chama.  The first time we rode all the way to Antonito with the bus return.  The other two were to Osier and return.

I highly recommend Chama to Osier for these reasons:

1. The engine(s) work their hardest up the Cumbres Pass.

2. Two of three times the train was double headed to the pass with the helper cut off at the top.  On this forum I have asked how they determine when they will double head and nobody seems to know.

3. From Osier to Antonito most of the trip is over flat terrain.

Chama lodging and dining isn't that great but is passable.  If you need something nicer i suggest you consider Pagosa Springs which is about one hour away.

I recommend almost any time of year.  They all have their charms.  Be warned that the cars are not heated so prepare for the cold months.

Your wife will likely want to be in one of the coaches.  I spend almost the whole time in the open gondola which has by far the best view of the engines and scenery.

You should also strongly consider the Durango and Silverton.  The scenery is more spectacular and Durango is a much nicer town.

Chama is by far the best town for true railfans because you can walk almost anywhere in the yard and see all of the great equipment.  That is not permitted in Durango.

Enjoy your trip!  

I echo the comments of meixel.
My wife and I like riding from Chama and Osier and back to Chama.  Since you don't have to worry about lodging that is good.
Not too many good restaurants in Chama to chose from.  Passable, only.  I have to watch out because I am very allergic to MSG.
We like to ride in the falll when the leaves are turning.  Beatutiful trip.

Good luck on your decision.

Couple of comments.  First is that the prettiest time is definitely when the Aspen turn.  (End of Sept to early October)  That is also when they haul the most passengers and when you are most likely to catch a doubleheader.  As to the line between Osier and Antonito being flat, if you consider an average 1.4% grade (if memory serves me correctly) to be flat, then I guess it is flat.  Each part of the railroad has a distinct flavor.  Chama to Cumbres is of course the big mountain.  Great show by steam engines, chance for double headers if the traffic warrants.  From Cumbres to Osier it is now more downhill and you start into a high meadow type area that then follows the Los Pinos river.  Again a very pretty portion of the railroad.  From Osier to Big Horn you go through 2 tunnels and get to see the Toltec Gorge along this route.  There is also great echo's in here if the whistle is used.  From Big Horn to Antonito it becomes more a high scrub dry zone with much fewer then no tree's.  The railroad twists and turns to cover more miles but keep the grade down to the 1.4% range.  In this area you cross the state line many times.  IMHO you do a disservice to only cover half of the railroad.  The experience is also different depending on where you start and finish.  When we rode the train a lot we would spend the night in Alamosa then drive to Antonito to take the train to Chama.  There are motels in Chama across the street where we would walk to to stay.  You can also eat in the area.  The next day we took the train back and again it was a different experience.  My recommendation to you if you have the time and money is to do a 2 day trip.  In my younger days I would stand up in the open gondola the whole trip.  Now am not sure I would do that.  Just one word of wisdom, don't wear white and go to the gondola.  I saw many folks do that and then after a few uphill miles they dissappeared due to cinders, never to be seen again. 

Fun Trivia question:  Which town, Antonito or Chama is at a higher elevation? 



And the answer is Antonito by about 20 feet. 

We always wear our older clothes, on either railroad becasue of the coal cinders.
Since I like to ride outside a lot on the C&TS, I wear old blue jeans with a old demin shirt.  We also like to ride the open air car on the Durango and Silverton.
Also, we have some older jackets that we have available incase it is cool/cold.

Have fun!

Pat
South Austin, TX

If you want to hear engine exhaust a lot of the time, ride Antonito to Chama.  It is up hill all the way to Cumbres which is only about 10 -12 miles from Chama.  But to really hear them work hard ride Chama to Antonito.  Double headers occur when number of cars reaches  9..  Normal consist is 7 but many days it is 8 cars.Take a jacket with you anytime you go.

Ride the Parlor car and sit on the east side of the car in the yard in Chama.  That side gives you the best scenery. Enjoy adult drinks and very nice chairs facing the outside of the car..  If you like you can walk through the parlor and 1st class car into the open air gondola.  Scenery is not very good for the first few miles out of Antonito, its just desert.

Stay at the Branding Iron Motel in Chama. Call more than month ahead to get a reservation.

Food at Osier is very good.

Whatever you do, you will love the ride.

My thoughts after riding both one day apart is Durango is not scenic as you are in canyons most of the time, mostly narrow so you have the same view for miles one side that you are on there is a canyon wall just out your window and not too far off is the other one across the river.
Chama is beautiful with vistas miles wide very nice ride and intresting always changing. Meal half way is nice break in the trip would suggest staying over at the top then ride down the next day. I went the first week of July several years back and I agree the parlor car is the best seat in the house and worth every penny of it on both. To put it bluntly Silverton is ok but would have rather had a quick bite to eat and returned. Next time down will skip the Durango ride unless its railroad days and then would ride both check into that dont know what time of year it happens.

All the trips are great; I prefer riding west from Antonito all the way to Chama.  Yes, the climb up the 4% going east from Chama to Cumbres is wonderful, but the locomotive barely works after that going east.  Going west, the locomotive is working all the way from Antonito to Cumbres.  Unlike many, I love riding in August--the near daily afternoon thundershowers from mid-July through late August can green the countryside up after the normally very dry June.  The clouds can make for great "storm light" photos, but the showers generally only last for a short time each day.  Fall is beautiful, but it is very tricky trying to "time" the peak of the colors.  The timing and length of the fall color season is totally dependent on Mother Nature and varies considerably from year to year.  One general statement is that the peak of colors generally occurs earlier than in lower elevation states--usually in late September or early October.  Very seldom do the colors last beyond mid-October.  Snow can occur anytime after Labor Day, and sometimes even earlier at the higher elevations (Cumbres, Los Pinos, Osier).  Similarly, opening day (Memorial Day weekend) may see the line snow-free, as is has been the case the last few years, or with snow still several feet deep at Cumbres.  Every year is different.  

As for helpers, the short answer to when they are used is usually simple: tonnage.  If a train out Chama is over 8 cars, a helper is required.  Oftentimes, it is as late as the morning of the train when the passenger count reaches that point that an 8th car is necessary.  That is why double-headers often occur with little or no advance notice.  

I have done it both ways and liked both of them. I found for photography lighting is best east to west.  For engine working nothing beats the climb out of Chama,  If you have time ride west to east take the bus back, The next morning take the bus and ride east to west and the third morni8ng chase the train out of Chama to just short of Los Pinos so you get to see the train from the ground and if you want to photograph it you can't go wrong. Just be carefull along Highway 17.

Here is a picture you could take.

Chris

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he says he hs 2 days so he could do what you mentioned, how cool-or should he go to durango?

The CLOSEST hotel ain't a bad deal, either.

Ed

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I have had four trips to the area.

The best was when I did the following:
 - drove to Chama and stayed at The Hotel across from the train station.  Not fancy but clean and not too expensive. 
 - took the train from Chama to Antonito  Coach the next day (not fancy but I spent most of the time in the open air car)
 - stayed at the Narrow Gauge RR Inn in Antonito (Roger Hogan let me leave my car at The Hotel in Chama)
 - took the train the next day Antonito to Chama Tourist (nobody under 21 on Parlour)
 - stayed another night at The Hotel and chased the train to Cumbres the next day and headed home.

Of all times I have gone the most beautiful was during fall colors in the middle of September.

 One trip I included the Durango and Silverton and the Cumbres and Toltec and, while the D & S was great, the C&TS is far superior in my opinion.  Others may disagree but that is how I feel.

JOHN

great trip this past summer but it will be a long time before I get the wife to ride behind a coal fired loco again after two this summer... sure agree with the old clothes comment...and americans, leave your white tennis shoes home.   .Arlen 

The train is not air-conditioned and a long hot summer day can be arduous.  Fall in Colorado - New Mexico is nothing short of spectacular. If you go in fall plan on visiting during the last week of September and the first week of October.  TOM

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To recap from someone who first rode the entire line  Alamosa - Durango- Silverton in 1951 under D&RG operation.

Do it as a two day, starting east to west.  Overnight at Chama.  I have not been aboard since the Parlor car, but would suggest that at least one way, westbound.

Last week in September-1st week of October for both lines.  Have done several trips this time of year and you will enjoy it very much.

Bring eye protection - Googles, head covering and lots of wraps so you can adjust during the day as it cold in the mornings and evenings. Good walking shoes, boots or hi-tops if you have them, can sure help turning an ankle.

What ever you do make lodging reservations months in advance. Do not expect a Hilton Hotel or fancy dinner houses at either end.
The limited lodging at Antonito is very basic, so if anyone wants to step up, suggest Alamosa.

As to the Durango,  its a great ride, but once is enough. Do it while in the area.  Now I have done it many times, but for real railroading and able to see the mountain ranges near and far, C&TS is best.

So many toursist in Durango, its a mini Disneyland.  Lots of lodging in area for those driving.  Course the ladies love the town for shopping.

Ride Parlor car or if available on your train, ask about the open platform business cars, they might be selling individual spots and not just for charter. Depending upon time of year and sales volume, they run three sections of the train.  Its fun to take the first train to Silverton, and photograph the others arriving in town. You can also check which train  is using the Silver Vista car, that could be a good option for viewing and warmer then the full open cars.  I have not been aboard, since this car  became available, but did so many years back, before the car burned.

On the C&TS the open cars are for everyone.  Been some years for me on the Silverton, but at one time, you could only ride the open cars if you made entire trip reservations in them.  Check with the railroad as to policy on use of the open cars.  Study the web site and ask questions, once the 2017 schedules are firmed up.

Ed

TOM and Ed have the right idea, go in Fall, the Summer thundershowers can be miserable, the Fall colors are truly
spectacular and last as Ed says, book the Parlor Car, it's a bit more but it's well worth it.

Out

Like many who have commented I have been multiple times and think you will find C&TS to be fantastic any time of year. 
Since this is a trip with, let me express a slightly different viewpoint than some good one already provided. I suggest you give a good look at the Antonito to Osier trip. That might be more pleasing to your wife.  You can stay in Alamosa which is an easy and brief drive to Antonito.  There is a lot more in the way of motels and restuarants, etc. in Alamosa than the other towns.  And another railroad to expericne too!  My wife enjoyed the visit and she is no railfan.  
If you do opt for Chama, the Branding Iron is great as already noted.  Hhave a great time.  

And if you go next September and stay in Alamosa, take lots of money. Just checked the Comfort Inn for some time
after the Narrow Gauge Convention and the low buck (non-refindable) senior rate was $135! To stay in Alamosa!

Out