Steam & Excursion > The old UP Steam Crew

The old UP steam crew's departure always seems to be brought up when arguing about Mr. Dickens' leadership. I have read almost all the threads on this subject but I am still left with a few questions that I hope some of you can help with: how fast did the members of the old crew begin to leave after Mr. Dickens took over? What was the time line of their departure? And also, it seemed that right after the flat wheel incident in 2012, that was when people began to outcry about Mr. Dickens. Why wait until then if he took over in 2011, and if he was such a problem before he took over as manager, how come there was not more outcry when he came back in 2010? Thank you all for reading and thanks for your answers in advance.

I'll admit I wasn't watching the situation all that closely back then, but I do recall what I sensed was a very lukewarm response to Dickens' promotion at the time and being rather surprised by it. I just assumed that the new manager was either hand picked or at least signed off by Steve Lee and that the new manager was a senior member of the existing crew. I mean, why would you do it ANY other way? I remember being quite shocked when NONE of the above was true.

I think there was a lot of inside maneuvers that never really became common knowledge. Just like in any business. There are those who know all of the facts and I'm sure they will end up here on TO one of these days.
I think the "old" crew started dropping like flies not long after the command change. There were a lot of complaints involved.
I live 1100 miles from Cheyenne, but have plenty of friends there so have heard a lot of stories that were floating around. I'm acquainted with Ed and have ridden with him. We never got to know each other very well and I don't think I'm on his Christmas card list.
I've known Steve since 1988 and in my years as 1522's CMO used him as a sounding board and owe him more thanks that I can give for the help we received from him. I got to know the rest of the crew when I was "guest fireman" on some runs and thoroughly enjoyed working with them. I miss those days, just as I miss the days of running "the other woman in my life". Mr. Nystrom and I had good times together on trips and myself and any other SLSTA people who were on the the trips were treated like royalty. Steve was very helpful to small groups unless they tried to BS him. If he told you he would do something, he would do it. When talking with Steve, he always sounded like his crew was family and told some good stories about them. I know others who have the same impression of him.
I think its a shame that they were portrayed in some of the ways I've heard they were from people who have heard it from the shop now. Its a shame 3985 was pulled from service with only a small amount of work needed to run her a nother couple years until her 1472.
I don't feel that atmosphere in the "new" group. Its a shame! Bottom line is "not my circus, not my monkeys". My opinion means nothing and things will keep on keepin on.

On several of the UP steam visits I got the pleasure of visiting with Steve, Lynn and several of the other members of the crew whose names I cannot remember.

I think that there was a Ed, but not the current Ed, this person was very friendly to visit with as well as some of the other personnel.

Unfortunately, management has their own management agenda.

Even with the State of Texas before I retired, you could not assume that a particular highly qualified person would get the job. Even with the company my wife works for, she has dealt with the same issues. Most qualified person does not get the job, the person who was qualified help the person who was hired and then leaves for a better position.

Then when it hits the fan, management is looking like a fool trying to clean up the mess.

Pat
South Austin, TX

JMT-844-97 Wrote:
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> The old UP steam crew's departure always seems to
> be brought up when arguing about Mr. Dickens'
> leadership. I have read almost all the threads on
> this subject but I am still left with a few
> questions that I hope some of you can help with:
> how fast did the members of the old crew begin to
> leave after Mr. Dickens took over?

First, when Steve Lee was promoted to Superintendent of Executive Fleet operations, about April or May, 2010, his office was then moved out of the Cheyenne Steam Shop, to a "downtown Cheyenne" location. The current manager was then brought back to Cheyenne, from his position as Engineer in the Denver Pool, and made Manager of the Steam Shop. Things started to get a bit "testy" but since Steve was still "available", the various trips in July, September, and October 2010 were quite successful. On the November 2010 "50th Anniversary Trip" to Omaha, with 844, Steve Lee announced that he was retiring at the end of December, and that the "50th anniversary Trip" would be his last run.

As soon as Steve was gone, in January 2011, the crap started, and two members of the crew flat-out quit the UP, and departed. As time progressed through the winter, various other members of the "old crew" began to have issues with the new manager, and even the long standing Foreman was "removed from the property".

Also, during the winter of 2010/2011, all the rods were removed from 844 and sent out to an "outside" machine shop, in Denver for all new bearings and polishing. The current manager was "unhappy with the rod noise on 844", thus much tighter clearances were used for all the new bearings. Since a "break-in run" or "test run" was NOT performed, prior to the 2011 season's operations, the rod bearings ran EXTREMELY hot all the way to Kansas City (all this was well documented on the internet with many photos, etc.).

What was the
> time line of their departure?

As I stated above, folks began to depart in about February 2011, and subsequent hires began to have issues with his "management style" and THEY began to depart.

And also, it seemed
> that right after the flat wheel incident in 2012,
> that was when people began to outcry about Mr.
> Dickens.

No, the "outcry" started in early 2011.

Why wait until then if he took over in
> 2011, and if he was such a problem before he took
> over as manager, how come there was not more
> outcry when he came back in 2010?

THAT sir, is the sixty four thousand dollar question! Who, in the much higher ranks of UP was, and is still is, protecting him?


Thank you all
> for reading and thanks for your answers in
> advance.

What is the expected benefit of this question and discussion? It has been a touchy subject, the past crew did well, the present crew is doing well, so just let it go.

Spikes Wrote:
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> What is the expected benefit of this question and
> discussion? It has been a touchy subject, the past
> crew did well, the present crew is doing well, so
> just let it go.

Just how do you figure that the "current crew" has been "doing well" since the spring of 2011?????? You mean a "three year boiler wash" is acceptable to you????

HotWater Wrote:
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> Spikes Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What is the expected benefit of this question
> and
> > discussion? It has been a touchy subject, the
> past
> > crew did well, the present crew is doing well,
> so
> > just let it go.
>
> Just how do you figure that the "current crew" has
> been "doing well" since the spring of 2011??????
> You mean a "three year boiler wash" is acceptable
> to you????

Jack, ANYTHING the current bunch does, no matter how costly, unnecessary, or time and money wasting, is nothing short of FANTASTIC to this Koolade chugger.

After all, this new crew is the greatest thing to hit steam locos since Richard Trevethick.

Amazing what a ride can buy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/17 15:41 by Realist.

The other Ed was Ed Smith, Boilermaker.

My departure was upon Steve's Retirement. I had preplanned that long before Dickens slithered back in. His dark cloud at the doorway convinced me I'd made a good decision. I'm thinking Jack Wheelihan "retired" at the same time I did. So he & I dodged a bullet. The rest of the guys didn't fare so well. Lynn passed on, Fireman Ricky B was forced back to the road, RH Foreman Ron Tabke was screwed over hard and removed from service, Machinist Jack Holland transferred to the Diesel pit and Scott Turley had his fill and went back to doing Power Plant work. Boilermaker Ed Smith and Foreman General Henry Krening held on for a while. Ed finally had his fill over the new politics and favoritism. And we have a read about what Henry went through. Then there was Caroline and her lawsuit for Harassment. I lost count of how many others have come and gone.

Us old guys were a family and still are a family. We just don't work together anymore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/17 17:50 by EmpireBuilder.

I have never figured out why Steve didn't pursue a second career as a stand up comic, after he and Doyle brought all of us who attended the banquet at the 2005 NRHS Convention in Portland to tears from laughing so hard. Both of them really know what they are doing and shared some hilarious experiences with us, especially in situations with others who had no clue about what steam operations were really about. Thanks, man.

Spikes Wrote:
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the present crew is doing well, so
> just let it go.

One word..... Delusional!!!!!!!!!

CS

>What is the expected benefit of this question and discussion? It has been a touchy subject, the past crew did well, the present crew is doing well, so just let it go.

The reason I chose to ask this question is because there is something obviously wrong in the UP Steam Program, the only reason why people (Hotwater, Empirebuilder, Realist, etc) would bring up this is to bring attention to a big fat lie. I at first liked Mr. Dickens, I saw his presentations, saw his "public side", and fell for the razzle dazzle. Then I saw the posts here, and didn't want to believe it. I was drinking the koolaid. But I can't ignore what has been going on, the only reason this subject is still touchy, and frankly the reason that Mr. Dickens still has his job, is because there are still the koolaid drinkers who soak up every single word he says.

This has been just another typical post from spikes, who really has no clue. He "sucked up" to the current manager, while the 4014 was being prepared for towing to Cheyenne, and he even got to "ride in the tender", thus absolutely NO amount of truth will convict spikes otherwise.

There are a lot of people like the koolaid drinker who have to be told, "the officers will be here in a few seconds to escort you off the property". And its always such a joy to see them on their farewell trip. Hopefully with their little tennis shoes barely touching the gravel in the parking lot.

HotWater Wrote:
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> This has been just another typical post from
> spikes, who really has no clue. He "sucked up" to
> the current manager, while the 4014 was being
> prepared for towing to Cheyenne, and he even got
> to "ride in the tender", thus absolutely NO amount
> of truth will convict spikes otherwise.


I don't think I've heard it on here for whatever reason, but why was it that you left the UP Steam program?

>This has been just another typical post from spikes, who really has no clue. He "sucked up" to the current manager, while the 4014 was being prepared for towing to Cheyenne, and he even got to "ride in the tender", thus absolutely NO amount >of truth will convict spikes otherwise.

I really can't blame spikes here. I understand his point of view, for me it always has been, how is Mr. Dickens such a good guy in public but yet has done a complete 180? It amazes me why he fails to be the that same guy behind closed doors and how he can't see the benefit in doing so. This whole thing could've been avoided and if he didn't let his ego get in the way. No. 3985 would have been operational this whole time, No. 844 would not have needed a three year boiler wash, and the old crew (at least the majority) would still be there.

I'd also like to thank everyone for their contributions so far, I have not only gotten the answers to my questions but also think that this has been a very healthy conversation.

Yes, cathartic.
AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

portlander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This has been just another typical post from
> > spikes, who really has no clue. He "sucked up"
> to
> > the current manager, while the 4014 was being
> > prepared for towing to Cheyenne, and he even
> got
> > to "ride in the tender", thus absolutely NO
> amount
> > of truth will convict spikes otherwise.
>
>
> I don't think I've heard it on here for whatever
> reason, but why was it that you left the UP Steam
> program?

Two words the "current manager"! The last trip I made with the UP Steam Team, was the trip to the Pendleton Roundup, in about September 2010. Steve Lee was along as Superintendent and Engineer. The 844 was experiencing a pretty serious "bucking" vibration, and the "new current manager" was worried sick about it, and didn't seem to have any clue what it was. Prior to arriving at Tampa, Idaho, where we had a rest day, I thought I had figured out what the problem was. I discussed it with Foreman General Henry Krenning, and then discussed it with Steve Lee, back in his office on the boiler/dorm car. Once Henry understood what I was talking about (the buffer assembly internal clearance between the engine and tender), Henry phoned retired Round House Foreman Art Lockman, in order to obtain the desired dimensional information we needed (Art, while on the golf course, knew exactly what we needed, and gave the dimension, off the top of his head, to Henry). That afternoon both Henry and Ed Smith did the "dirty work" between the tender and engine, by adding the necessary steel plate shims into the buffer assembly. End result, problem solved. I explained to the current manager what we all had done, and why.

As the trip progressed to Portland, and then back to Pendleton, I began to experience the true nature of the current manager, and how he treated people. I never made another trip for the UP steam program, especially when Steve Lee retired.

Lots of whining about the way UP runs their steam operation. It's nice they even have steam on their roster. I say the company can operate their railroad any way they desire. Some foamers will never be pleased. What next; griping about their intermodal trains?

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