Steam & Excursion > Frostburg MD turntable

If this has been asked before, I'm sorry. Is the WMSR turntable at Frostburg long enough to accommodate C&O 1309?

Thanks.

DaleR

dbrcnw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this has been asked before, I'm sorry. Is the
> WMSR turntable at Frostburg long enough to
> accommodate C&O 1309?
>
> Thanks.
>
> DaleR


YES... with a few inches to spare.....

A true B.F.O.

W.

Posted from iPhone

dbrcnw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this has been asked before, I'm sorry. Is the
> WMSR turntable at Frostburg long enough to
> accommodate C&O 1309?
>
> Thanks.
>
> DaleR


Do you think the WMSR would have went to all the trouble of getting 1309 and not have it fit on the turntable? SMH

One would hope not,but sillier things have occurred. I heard a story just this year on the MLB network about AT&T Park in San Francisco. When it was designed,they forgot to include bullpens,so had to add them in foul territory on the field after the park was built. Maybe our northern Cal readers can confirm or refute this,but crazier things have happened!

Tom

Thanks for the information.

I have seen both the turntable and the engine but obviously not at the same time. And yes, it would not be the first time something new came in too big to fit.

DaleR

ACTUALLY....

Now that I think about it, I remembered a similar 'disaster' committed by a tourist operation...

Years ago, when Steamtown was located in Vermont, they moved the collection of rolling stock, from Bellows Falls , over to a wide, flat swamp as the display area for their collection.

They dug a pit, a installed a turntable, set out radial,tracks and set thngs up....

Only problem was .... they never sunk ( with a pile driver) the array of 16 pilings ( 4X4 ) as the support for the center bearing--- carrying all the weight of the engines that would be spun. All the weight of what's on the table rides on the "rim rail" wheels....

Proper turntable design has the centerbearing carrying 90% of the load weight...

It was a total disaster ---- anything heavier than a coach, would sink the table down onto the rim rails..... all of this is on a swamp, muddy plain.

Heavier engines had to be dragged by several tractors to drag the table around ...

So, yes STOOPID things happen at amateurish operations...including dropped crown sheets --- as in Gettysburg...

W....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/17 04:14 by wcamp1472.

1, What is the 1309's total wheelbase -- engine and tender?

2. What is the diameter of the Frostburg turntable?

(I would not ask here if I had been able to find the info on the web.)

TIA!

Margaret_SP_fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1, What is the 1309's total wheelbase -- engine
> and tender?
>
> 2. What is the diameter of the Frostburg
> turntable?
>
> (I would not ask here if I had been able to find
> the info on the web.)
>
> TIA!


http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/staff/archive/2014/10/09/10-questions-for-mike-gresham-of-the-western-maryland-scenic-railroad-the-railroad-rebuilding-a-landmark-locomotive-chesapeake-amp-ohio-2-6-6-2-no-1309.aspx

10. From Trains Facebook follower Andrew Dietrick: Does 1309 really fit on the Frostburg turntable?
A: Our table is 100-feet-long, and the engine is 98-feet-8-inches over the pulling faces. Its wheelbase is 88 feet-6-inches, so yes, it fits. What we’re more curious about is the 22-degree curve that leads from the turntable into the passing siding at Frostburg. The engine’s maximum curvature is 20 degrees so that will be an interesting test trip. We may have to do some track realignment at Frostburg station. However, since we are already planning to lengthen the siding at Frostburg to accommodate longer consists, easing that curve won’t be that much additional work. Our longer consists require a helper to be used with 734 about 40 percent of the time, hence the need for 1309.

Thanks, DTWilson...

You can expect that the engine can take tighter curves than the 'spec'... Coupled to a tender, reduces the amount of flexibility.....

Typically, for safety reasons, builders and designers ((together with the RR) set the minimum curve more restrictive by having the tender/rear cab wall "crunch" factor to alert engine crews to the bind!

So, it's worth the "test" to verify the capability. The old mine trackage in the coal fields was probably MORE treacherous, with tighter curves than the 'spec'... So my estimation is that you will be very pleased.

W.

Posted from iPhone

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks, DTWilson...
>
> You can expect that the engine can take tighter
> curves than the 'spec'... Coupled to a tender,
> reduces the amount of flexibility.....
>
> Typically, for safety reasons, builders and
> designers ((together with the RR) set the minimum
> curve more restrictive by having the tender/rear
> cab wall "crunch" factor to alert engine crews to
> the bind!
>
> So, it's worth the "test" to verify the
> capability. The old mine trackage in the coal
> fields was probably MORE treacherous, with tighter
> curves than the 'spec'... So my estimation is that
> you will be very pleased.
>
> W.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Wes;

I would tend to worry more about the "jump" onto the turntable at Frostburg. The track leading up to the table is on grade and the turntable is level. I know what that meant and did to Jack's engines...

There has also been speculation as to "Structure Interference" at Frostburg with the loading platform. Personally, there was never any issues with passenger cars hitting the platform the few times we shoved a car onto the turntable, so I wouldn't expect any problems with #1309 but some have raised that concern.

Tim W.

---

Yes!

Yes with turntables, It's tough to get all 3 dimensions to be zero influence...with alignment struggles..

With the 759, our first trip to the CNJ turntable, at Jim Thorpe, PA., we had not taken-on water for the tender--- it was very low......when we attempted to use that table...

However, the turntable was terribly unbalanced with all the engine's 'weight' at one end...

The single TT motor wouldn't move it the last 12-inches--- we had to jack it that last foot!!!

At Roanoke, a month later, at the East End Shops, their approach track was at an angle to the table track--- as 759 went on the table (no TT lock), pilot truck "kicked" the table's rails out-of-line for the drivers---UGGGHH,

Again, we had to use car shop jacks to brace the TTable from
from shifting

There are many things that make it tricky with "loosely-goosey" turntables...

My guess is that the 1309 will be right at home, on the excellent track--- compared to the typical rails at mine tipples and typical coal yard trackage.

Thanks to all the WMSR members and employees for undertaking such a significant challenge. I feel that 1309 is an ideal engine for your purposes....

Yes, there will be "teething" problems, wrinkles to be ironed out and challenges to be resolved---- each one is a wonderful "teaching-moment" and has lessons with deep, sometimes hidden meanings.

Do Not get rushed into decisions and always work safely --- and watch out safety-wise for each other...

Say "Hello" to John Hankey, for me----
[B&O Museum, 1990s,
#614---- Wes says: "I'll get the Gate!!"]

W.

Posted from iPhone

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks, DTWilson...
>
> You can expect that the engine can take tighter
> curves than the 'spec'... Coupled to a tender,
> reduces the amount of flexibility.....
>
> Typically, for safety reasons, builders and
> designers ((together with the RR) set the minimum
> curve more restrictive by having the tender/rear
> cab wall "crunch" factor to alert engine crews to
> the bind!
>
> So, it's worth the "test" to verify the
> capability. The old mine trackage in the coal
> fields was probably MORE treacherous, with tighter
> curves than the 'spec'... So my estimation is that
> you will be very pleased.
>
> W.
>
> Posted from iPhone
We had a safety chain across the gangway on both sides of 1522. We were coming back from Topeka RR Days and I was easing around a tight LH curve in Kansas City when the chain on my side snapped and scared the crap out of me. Sounded like a shotgun going off. 1522 was "supposed" to do a 20 degree curve. We did ease around a couple of sharp spots in a yard and it was tight enough that the inside of the trailing truck wheel rubbed on the frame tailpiece.

FWIW; From a Cumberland, MD radio station.....
https://www.wcbcradio.com/?news=wmsr-experiencing-financial-problems-according-to-documents

:(

JW

edit:.. just saw this was also shared in a previous WMSR thread



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/17 09:06 by ChessieSystem.

towazy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One would hope not,but sillier things have
> occurred. I heard a story just this year on the
> MLB network about AT&T Park in San Francisco. When
> it was designed,they forgot to include bullpens,so
> had to add them in foul territory on the field
> after the park was built. Maybe our northern Cal
> readers can confirm or refute this,but crazier
> things have happened!
>
> Tom

When Dodger Stadium opened in April 1962, there were no drinking fountains. The team denied it was on purpose to generate more drink sales. They were soon added at any rate.

PERichardson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> towazy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One would hope not,but sillier things have
> > occurred. I heard a story just this year on the
> > MLB network about AT&T Park in San Francisco.
> When
> > it was designed,they forgot to include
> bullpens,so
> > had to add them in foul territory on the field
> > after the park was built. Maybe our northern
> Cal
> > readers can confirm or refute this,but crazier
> > things have happened!
> >
> > Tom
>
> When Dodger Stadium opened in April 1962, there
> were no drinking fountains. The team denied it
> was on purpose to generate more drink sales. They
> were soon added at any rate.

Same thing happened at Disneyland in 1955

Posted from iPhone

Well, 4014 won't fit the Cheyenne turntable, Big Boys never did. Have to jack up the rear axle on the Centipede tender to get it to clear. = = JLH

highgreengraphics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, 4014 won't fit the Cheyenne turntable, Big
> Boys never did. Have to jack up the rear axle on
> the Centipede tender to get it to clear. = = JLH

I don't think you are correct. The UP 4000 class locomotives ALWAYS fit on the Cheyenne turntable. However, the rare time that a 4000 got east to North Platte, THAT is the turntable they would not fit on, and the rear of the tender had to be raised up on a ramp fixture.

WELL!!!
That's one advantage with a centipede Tank.... you can run 1 or 2 rear axles up on a wedge ( 2-rails ) and leave them hangin'....flanges must clear the other rails... individual trucks make that trick harder!

I'd bet they also blocked, under the intended & lifted journal box, so that axle wouldn't drop lower.....and leave wheels fouling other rim rails.

My WAG...

W.

dbrcnw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the information.
>
> I have seen both the turntable and the engine but
> obviously not at the same time. And yes, it would
> not be the first time something new came in too
> big to fit.
>
> DaleR

There has been more than one fire Dept. That has specd out a new truck only to find out upon delivery that it didn't fit in the garage.

Posted from Android

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA