Steam & Excursion > Question for Wes and other steam restoration people

How do you paint a locomotive? I know this sounds basic, but when restoring, is it one piece at a time then put back together? Or is the whole loco spray painted from inside of the frame, then out? Brushes? What about tight areas?

Just curious.

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CPRR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you paint a locomotive? I know this sounds
> basic, but when restoring, is it one piece at a
> time then put back together? Or is the whole loco
> spray painted from inside of the frame, then out?
> Brushes? What about tight areas?
>
> Just curious.

Generally the major locomotive components are first primed, while the various appliance components are primed & painted after rebuild and prior to remounting. Then the whole "finished" locomotive is painted, then lettered. Depending on if the locomotive is "all black" or multi-color, appropriate masking of different colors would be in order.

I'm not really a good source for how to do it.

I have not participated in a a complete tear-down, boiler off the frame reconstruction.

Ross, Doyle and many others have repainted many locos, many times.

I guess that the 2-part, epoxy-like paints are the most durable, and are less susceptible to the ravages of weather.

Surface preparation is crucial.
I prefer using crushed walnut shells as a blasting media... Any nut residue that gets into the "works", can get crushed, ooze walnut oil, and NOT affect bearings and vital parts. NEVER USE SAND BLASTING !!'

(I did supervise the "Q&D" repainting of several locos returned to the D&H, at Oneonta, New York. --- at the inception of ConRail---

We blasted the diesel
carbodies with walnut shells to get the old paint off, then painted them D&H colors in our car/loco paint booth and got them back out, on the road, as soon as the paint was dry...).


An area of concern that I have is trying to come up with a suitable way to coat the inside of tender cisterns. It's not an appearance-thing, more of halting the erosion of the tanks from the inside, out.

There are probably chemical
catalyst-like treatments that could be added to water and the tender flooded....

I'd want to be sure that I understood how the residue of such an operation affects the feedwater for the boiler --- I fear any 'foaming' that might result.

Exterior painting, for me is one of decoration, neat and with pleasing & plausible appearance.

I think that true black shpuld be confined to the frames and hidden parts. I'd expect that a very deep, dark blue would look better. In a subtle way--- for the most exposed areas of the locos. I think PRR's use of their Brunswick Green attempted to comply with artists' training that black does not really enhance an object. And is to be avoided.

Decoration, is mostly about personal preference and taste.

I am, however a true enthusiast when it comes to white tires !!' To me they are crucial to conveying the visual appeal of all steam locos.

I've heard the complaints about keeping them clean--- I never found it a ptoblem.

To keep them clean, I always could recruit young folks, and like Tom Sawyer, I could entice them to take over...

We sprayed the dirty tires with either kerosene, or diesel fuel,
from a conventional garden sprayer ---- a light spray loosened up the oil/dirt film and we them used steam from the boiler, or lots of rags to wipe up, & get the dirt off.

At most, we could get driver tires clean in about 5 minutes. per tire. That's what got Scott Lindsay started.... as a youngster!

Wes

Posted from iPhone



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/17 09:09 by wcamp1472.

Sorry about the duplication..
Purely the fault of not being good at the art of using tiny
I-phones. W.


I'm not really a good source for how to do it.

I have not participated in a complete tear-down, boiler-off the frame reconstruction.

Ross, Doyle and many others have repainted many locos, many times.

I guess that the 2-part, epoxy-like paints are the most durable, and are less susceptible to the ravages of weather.

An area of concern that I have is trying to come up with a suitable way to coat the inside of tender cisterns. It's not an appearance-thing, more of halting the erosion of the tanks from the inside, out.

There are probably chemical
catalyst-like treatments that could be added to water and the tender flooded....

I'd want to be sure that I understood how the residue of such an operation affects the feedwater for the boiler --- I fear any 'foaming' that might result.

Exterior painting, for me is one of decoration, neat and with pleasing & plausible appearance.

I think that true black shpuld be confined to the frames and hidden parts. I'd expect that a very deep, dark blue would look better. In a subtle way--- for the most exposed areas of the locos. I think PRR's use of their Brunswick Green attempted to comply with artists' training that black does not really enhance an object. And is to be avoided.

Decoration, is mostly about personal preference and taste.

I am, however a true enthusiast when it comes to white tires !! To me, they are crucial to conveying the visual appeal of all steam locos.
Their size truly astounds the youngsters that I try to attract to our hobby.

The totally dark chasm that envelopes all the running gear in a total void, is not inspiring AT ALL. Most of the negative comments are old grumps commenting on their limited, childhood, experiences --- try her than what is needed today to attract the next generation to join in our passion...

I've heard the complaints about keeping "white-walls" clean--- but, I never found it a ptoblem.

To keep them clean, I always could recruit young folks, ----and like Tom Sawyer, I could entice them to take over...

We sprayed the dirty tires with either kerosene, or diesel fuel,
from a conventional
hand-charged garden sprayer ----just a light spray , an a couple of minutes 'soak time', loosened up the oil/dirt film and we them used steam from the boiler, ( in a suitable steam nozzle) or, for safety , simply wiping rags ---that's good to wipe up, get the dirt & grime off.

At most, we could get driver tires clean in about 5 minutes. per tire.

That's what got Scott Lindsay started.... as a youngster!
You can't go wrong, from there. Doyle was also good at wiping and painting, too --- lo, those many years ago. Ross also has painted many tires white--/ he got good at it, too.

Wes

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/17 08:45 by wcamp1472.

I think the ONLY time you should sandblast is if the whole locomotive is apart, wheels, boxes and such in another place. Even then I don't like abrasive blasting and have had some heated arguments over it. Sand will find a place to hide no matter how much you clean up afterwards. So will cinders after doubleheading behind a coal burner.
A good primer is important after making sure things are surgically clean. Just like painting your car.
We used a two part epoxy on 1522, which even included the lettering. I put up stencils and masking and then mixed a clear two part with bronze powder mixed in and then sprayed all the lettering and striping.
I will include one thing to NEVER do. Don't let a zealot talk the powers to be into putting a clearcoat on everything. I'll just leave that out there. Just don't do it!
All of the underframe was brushed with a primer and all the small stuff was painted before reassembling. Once she was all assembled, then the jacket and everything else was sprayed.
Tender interiors are murder. Apexior makes a product, but it would be a bitcheroo to do the inside of the tender, especially the water legs. We did use it on the inside of our ex-IC canteen after thoroughly cleaning it out from its sand storage days and some interior work on baffles. Apexior has or had products for cold water and boiler interior uses. Its good stuff.

Don, what about using the stuff that pickup truck beds are sprayed with in the water tank of the tender?

Tom..

As a substance, I think it wants shiny new metal as a base.
Cisterns have water baffles, in very close spacing --- the covering would have to be applied to all surfaces, ---- and the under side of all horizontal surfaces.

It is too cramped in most tenders to maneuver spraying equipment and the person spraying ( breathing apparatus?) -- and, as noted above, the 'water legs are virtually impossible to access. ANY missed areas would lead to water getting under the coating and doing its evil--- undiscovered.

The coating ( epoxy) would have to bond to the loose rust and flaky existing steel plates..
The only solution, as I see it is, a whole new cistern fabricated of stainless steel, or some other suitable material.

Some time, crawl down inside a tender's cistern ( be sure to have it empty), and inspect it as if you were the contractor having to perform the spraying...
The entire interior surface, 360 degrees, must be perfectly covered....or you're just wasting your money.

New, steel, cisterns are completed in this day and age; but, there's a lot of welding, and fastening...the baffles are crucial to keep
the sides/ends from bursting..

Multiply the tender's water capacity by 8 lbs per gallon, to get an idea of the masses involved.

W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/17 14:51 by wcamp1472.

In "them days" the engine was painted (brush, then after the mid 1920s, spray) after it was all assembled, regardless of whether individual components were painted separately beforehand. Once a coat of paint dried, the time interval to the next coat wasn't very critical.

One of the drawbacks of modern paints, such as urethanes and epoxies -- even catylized acrylics, is that they surface cure is so thoroughly after about 36 hours that the next layer of paint you apply has extreme difficulty forming a chemical bond. What this means is that for a multi-tone paint job, figure on starting Monday at 8 AM with the first color and complete the last color by 8 PM Tues. Remember those SP rebuilds which came out of the Sacramento Shops in the early to mid 1990s which had the gray paint peeling off in great sheets? This was the reason -- epoxy primer followed weeks later by the carbody colors. It also makes the incremental approach of painting the components as you restore them, as mentioned above, somewhat problematic.

Thank you all for the information. The paint in the 1930s I am sure is totally different from the paints of today, both in application and in composition.

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Unless the boiler, or major portions of it, are being replaced,
you will seldom see a bare frame.

First take hundred of pictures. Every bolt, pipe, wire, hose,
etc. from all angles. Gotta know how it goes back together,
and by the time that happens, it may be a decade or more later.

As for cleaning, hot water/steam mixed with degreaser from a
power washer will get most of it off. It will take wire brushes
and scrapers to get the rest. This can also be done over a pit.

Once it's clean, examine it for cracks, then check the tram.
If there are issues with either, now is the time to attend to it.
Measure EVERYTHING and record it all. Every pedestal leg and
opening, every bolt hole, every reference mark. Make sure the
frame isn't racked, twisted, poorly repaired previously, etc.
Make sure pedestal openings are square and true. Make sure
there are no egg-shaped bushings or holes. Learn where fitted
bolts were used and their sizes.

Don't expect it to be a perfect match to the original drawings.

It makes no sense to paint the inside surfaces of a frame. It will
be greasy and oily again 20 miles down the road, and that stuff
protects it.

Paint removal from wheels, jacket, cab, tender, etc. is best done
with aircraft stripper and power washing, followed by lots of
scraping or wire-wheeling or needle-scaling.

Apexior is great for the tender tank interior.

Avoid sandblasting anything anywhere near the running gear.

Use a good quality primer and paint, and have someone who knows
what he's doing paint it. Don't waste your money on high-tech,
highly toxic coatings.