Steam & Excursion > Age question

It is always a pleasure to read discussions by all of the very knowledgeable steam experts here. What I am worried about this knowledge will be lost to the next generation and the ones after that.

So if I could be so bold, gentlemen how old are you? Jack, Wes, Doyle, Realist, Ross, Bob K, Steve Lee, Earl, anyone else?

We should arrange a symposium in the middle of the country, invite you all to teach us the lost art of steam locomotive operations. Maybe even some teaching courses. Then the q and a with beer.

I could see it now....

Posted from iPhone

Make a great video....

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Definitely video. Demonstrations of technique are good in their own right. Stories are gold.

Rebecca Morgan
Jacobsburg, OH

Age question....Wes Camp was 77 on 8/10...

I am amazed at the young and knowledgeable folks that I have met ----- there are so many that have dived into the deep end of the pool.
The next generation back seems to very well versed on the important aspects of loco rebuilding.

I think an advantage that they have is the courage to dig into the problems that they face, wrestle with the concepts, improvise and complete the tasks.
I had worried about the boilermakers' craft ---- At one time I hadn't seen hope of that skill being passed down. Now, I see many projects that are in good hands, and young boilermakers who are very capable and eager to find projects to deepen their experiences.

One vital aspect of the craft that is key to safe operation is the re-write of the FRA Steam loco inspection rules. The rewrite, with the ultrasound requirement is crucial to encouraging folks to look at and examine critical aspects of boiler work. The steps required to perform the inspection are taken in stride as simply being the proper way to do the work. The new crew dives-in, finds problems, seeks answers ( from others in the 'community) solves the problems and gets to light-off --- with a better quality process than we had in the old days.

Yes, it's puzzling to watch the Cheyenne crew plunge ahead , yet the crew is made up of young INDIVIDUALS. Those folks have a rare opportunity to learn so much as they delve deeper into restoration. Each one of the workers is a smart, intelligent learner. From that kind of pool will come folks that eventually will spread around the country bringing the stuff they learned across the land. Everyday the members of this team each faces new experiences. It's and individual process that occurs as a result of the environment --- yes, the leadership may stumble along, that that too, provides learning moments. It ain't pretty, but it's part of life. Columbus made a lot of troubles and mistakes...it's how you get to new discoveries.

There are many shops where the basics are practiced every day --- Strasburg, TVRM, Spencer, Scranton, Ft. Wayne, the mid-west, the northwest,
Yes, some are progressing at different rates, but the quality and experience of these folks is better than we were. They actively seek the work and dig into areas where I would have feared to tread...

So, I am very glad to survey the landscape and see the coming crop of 'youngsters' as being very capable and skilled at what they do. They are practicing the skill of Learning by Doing. They are eager to learn from their mistakes, find a better way and succeed.
These folks enjoy the feelings of pride ifvaccomplishment and self esteem. Their reward comes from the doing, not from positive 'job reviews', incentives and trophies---they are rewarded by pride of accomplishment. A much higher standard.

The locos DO reward the hard work in ways that are truly self-satisfying, in ways the are deeply personal.
Their rewards are found in pride-of-accomplishment. As they succeed, they know it's because they persevered, fought the problem and won-- both individually and as a team. The locomotives are the classrooms and the teachers ----- the best lessons arise from making mistakes.
If things go well and smoothly, what has been learned?
NOTHING!

The true 'learning' happens as a result of realization that the trouble just solved had the purpose of providing a 'learning moment' --- and the young workers are not afraid of experiencing 'learning moments' . They have their eyes in the prize --- and soldier-on, committed to completing and learning the the next steps..

The Locomotive Arts are in Good Hands. I sleep well at nights where I had the chance to meet these young, skilled folks on the the path to succeed.
Yes we, the oldsters, can all meet and "chew the fat" at forums, .but most eager youngsters would rather be in the shop, learning by doing --- and to me,
that's deeply meaningful.

Thier Primary Question, today is :"Where's the next problem for me to solve?"
Then they plunge into the task confident that they WILL SUCCEED.
That's true courage.

Wes Camp

Well sir, I turned 69 years old this past July. As for the mechanical knowledge of the locomotives, I only know what I learned helping the trained mechanical forces do their work on the locomotives. As Steve does not frequent this forum I can say he is a couple of years younger than myself. He, Lynn and I came out of the operating crafts. My forte was to learn the operating practices with the locomotive to get it down the rails, performing its appointed duties safely. That was why I always hung around the older engineers on layovers in North Platte and in the Cheyenne locker room to quiz and learn their knowledge of the operation of these fine pieces of machinery. Did we know everything? Not really but I know Steve studied all the shop practices books and manuals as did those mechanical men under his wing. And we knew when something came up that we were not sure of or actually didn't know, we brought in those who did. A fine example was after overhauling 844 it was time to quarter the drivers. None of the crew had ever had the experience so Steve brought Swede Nath in, a former lead machinist for the UP. Under his leadership the mechanical crew learned how to quarter the drivers, both on 844 this time and on 3985 at a later date.
To bring all this up to date we are all retired now. I am working for the UP Historical Society part time operating their business office here in Cheyenne and am deeply involved with the Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club. Steve is doing contract work with Wasatch Railroad Contractors here in Cheyenne and traveling around the country for them on various projects. Steve is also still a member of the various committees that review and set the codes for boilers and other committees. They recently rebuilt the locomotive for the folks at Como and it has been well documented here on Trainorders.
Where does it all go now? Well there are new crews emerging and, just as we took over from the UP mechanical department back in the 80's, we shall see how things evolve in the future. It does provide some encouragement to see the younger guys get involved with the railroad related projects, such as Todd's son, Mason, and his project on the Nevada Northern.
As to a panel, I suppose it could happen but it best not take too long as we are now in the age group where we find ourselves losing good friends at an ever increasing pace.
By the way, 3985 should be operating again in Cheyenne this weekend as I get my Lionel HO scale Challenger back with its new decoder installed. Last time I ran it on the Cheyenne & Green River layout in our mall, I pulled 72 cars. Guess I will never get the Challenger influence out of my heart.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

I turned 75 this past April. Doyle is now 74.

John Stein will turn 74 before the end of this week. (Hotwater is referring to the other Doyle)

-Larry Doyle



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/17 07:34 by LarryDoyle.

I'll be 77 in November.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
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> ... Wes Camp was 77 on 8/10...

So far, that makes you the Old F**t. Er, excuse me, the Patriarch.

-LD

Beware of trick answers here, folks......Wes camp turned 77 on 8/10/???, of what year??

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

agentatascadero Wrote:
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> Beware of trick answers here, folks......Wes camp
> turned 77 on 8/10/???, of what year??
>
> AA

How about THIS YEAR???? Is it THAT difficult?

HotWater Wrote:
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> agentatascadero Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Beware of trick answers here, folks......Wes
> camp
> > turned 77 on 8/10/???, of what year??
> >
> > AA
>
> How about THIS YEAR???? Is it THAT difficult?

Failed attempt at humor.....harumph, sigh.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

agentatascadero Wrote:
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> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
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> > agentatascadero Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
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> > -----
> > > Beware of trick answers here, folks......Wes
> > camp
> > > turned 77 on 8/10/???, of what year??
> > >
> > > AA
> >
> > How about THIS YEAR???? Is it THAT
> difficult?
>
> Failed attempt at humor.....harumph, sigh.
>
> AA

There is no room for humor on this discussion board, you didn't know that?

Jeff

Posted from iPhone

CDTX Wrote:
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> agentatascadero Wrote:
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> > > agentatascadero Wrote:
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> > > -----
> > > > Beware of trick answers here,
> folks......Wes
> > > camp
> > > > turned 77 on 8/10/???, of what year??
> > > >
> > > > AA
> > >
> > > How about THIS YEAR???? Is it THAT
> > difficult?
> >
> > Failed attempt at humor.....harumph, sigh.
> >
> > AA
>
> There is no room for humor on this discussion
> board, you didn't know that?
>
> Jeff

Certainly NOT when we are discussing ages over 70 years!!!!

I'm only 61, you guys are making me feel like a kid. Thanks!

HotWater Wrote:
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> CDTX Wrote:
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> > > > agentatascadero Wrote:
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> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Beware of trick answers here,
> > folks......Wes
> > > > camp
> > > > > turned 77 on 8/10/???, of what year??
> > > > >
> > > > > AA
> > > >
> > > > How about THIS YEAR???? Is it THAT
> > > difficult?
> > >
> > > Failed attempt at humor.....harumph,
> sigh.
> > >
> > > AA
> >
> > There is no room for humor on this discussion
> > board, you didn't know that?
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Certainly NOT when we are discussing ages over 70
> years!!!!

HotWater --
Man, do I EVER know how ya feel! I am almost 75 myself,
and cannot believe I am THAT old! Somehow, hitting 30
never bothered me, and neither did turning 40 or 50 or
even 60, but -- when I hit 70, that was a really, really
weird feeling, as I had gotten it in my head that 70 was
OLD -- REALLY old. But, fortunately, I do not FEEL "old"
most of the time. But the sheer number of years IS \somewhat
mind-boggling to me.

I do agree that it is essential for all of you true experts
on steam locomotives to get as much as possible of what you
know about these magnificent beasts written down, so the
younger generation does not have to reinvent the wheel.
I'd like you-all to preserve in written form or on video
whatever old tricks of the trade that you learned that
worked reliably -- at least on your own locomotive(s).

but no one can ever record everything he or she knows about
a job because you sometimes or often do not remember all those
details until you are working on something and need that knowledge.

Wes --
I am beyond relieved that there really ARE a number of young
people wh are knowledgeable in the field of steam locomotive
restoration and operation. I knew there were a few, but not
that there were so many. I think the future of our beloved
steam locomotives is in good hands.

Hey, i just saw Doyle and Jack in June and they both look like they have a lotta mileage left in them!! and i'm older than both of them!! :-)
C

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/17 22:09 by CarolVoss.

Thank you all for the sharing of experiences, perspectives, and outlooks ...
and I'm essentially a "beginner" here on TO with a couple of years and posts
under my belt ... started about 3 or 4 years or so ago at +/-65 ... and turned
69 back in May ... it is always a learning experience to read steam-related posts
here on TO ... many thanks to you railroad veterans for all you have shared!

Odyssey
Evergreen, CO

Somewhere deep inside, there is a healthy, muscular, ambitious, horny and handsome 18 year old who walks by a mirror and wonders what the hell happened.
Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer you get to the end the faster it goes. I can't believe where the years have gone. 1522 has been retired 15 years, I've been retired 14 years and all of a sudden I'm older than dirt.
I miss the America I grew up in.

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