Steam & Excursion > PRR Steam Question of date Sept 1956 ?

This M-1 powered coal train has pusher #6921 and I believe was arriving East Altoona from the Snowshoe via Bald Eagle Valley. At same time the following engines were live and working in the back ground of East Altoona Yard: #2945, #4578, #4543, #6779. I believe it is Sept Labor day weekend 1956, but could it be 1957? Were any of those active engines taken out of service before Sept 1957? There was a B-8a Saddle tank in the storage line, can't read the number from the photo but may be the #436 that was dropped from roster Oct 1956, and looks to be the last B-8a left.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/17 06:31 by PlyWoody.

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You can almost smell the smoke in this photo . . are those dropped ashes on the spurs on the left?

Craig
mcmrailvideos.com

The white piles are probably sand..... from early diesels .


Sometimes when parked, the airbrakes (24 RL) on early diesels could go into inadvertent eamergeny applications...
The Automatic sanding feature could be tripped, and blow sand for long time periods...
The tracks are probably temp storage tracks for Altoona Shops, either arrivals, or departures...so with many diesels, you're gonna get those piles of sand, if that’s a common parking area

Ash piles tend to be between the rails, sand applied at the rails...looks like sanders to me..

W.

Interestingly, in the 1950s the PRR got a waiver from the ICC that allowed ( supposed ‘cost reasons’) new diesel locos to omit penalty brake applications associated with failure to acknowledge cab signal changes...

The warning whistle blows continually, but the automatic penalty-application feature is omitted....
Tragically, that stupid decision resulted in the disaster at Chase, MD, January 1987...
Engineer Ricky Gates, on parallel side track, ran past multiple STOP signals, cab-signal blowing constantly...as he slid out onto the same Main track as a speeding ( 120 mph) northbound Amtrak Train was less than a minute from the crash...

Gates’s stalled, light (new) GE locos were rammed from the rear....
After running through & mangling the switch points, Gates had tried to back into the siding he had just run out of...mangled switch points prevented that..
he and and brakie ran for cover...

Brakie testified against Gates: Marijuana use, alcohol use, worked once every 30days...for over a year..to maintain seniority position on roster
NO SUPERVISOR questioned that behavior...
OMG!!!

Gates got jail...brakie got off...

Hard to believe that was 30years ago..

wcamp1472 Wrote:
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> The white piles are probably sand..... from early
> diesels .
>
>
> Sometimes when parked, the airbrakes (24 RL) on
> early diesels could go into inadvertent eamergeny
> applications...
> The Automatic sanding feature could be tripped,
> and blow sand for long time periods...
> The tracks are probably temp storage tracks for
> Altoona Shops, either arrivals, or departures...so
> with many diesels, you're gonna get those piles of
> sand, if that’s a common parking area
>
> Ash piles tend to be between the rails, sand
> applied at the rails...looks like sanders to me..
>
> W.
>
> Interestingly, in the 1950s the PRR got a waiver
> from the ICC that allowed ( supposed ‘cost
> reasons’) new diesel locos to omit penalty brake
> applications associated with failure to
> acknowledge cab signal changes...
>
> The warning whistle blows continually, but the
> automatic penalty-application feature is
> omitted....
> Tragically, that stupid decision resulted in the
> disaster at Chase, MD, January 1987...
> Engineer Ricky Gates, on parallel side track, ran
> past multiple STOP signals, cab-signal blowing
> constantly...as he slid out onto the same Main
> track as a speeding ( 120 mph) northbound Amtrak
> Train was less than a minute from the crash...
>
> Gates’s stalled, light (new) GE locos were
> rammed from the rear....
> After running through & mangling the switch
> points, Gates had tried to back into the siding he
> had just run out of...mangled switch points
> prevented that..
> he and and brakie ran for cover...
>
> Brakie testified against Gates: Marijuana use,
> alcohol use, worked once every 30days...for over a
> year..to maintain seniority position on roster
> NO SUPERVISOR questioned that behavior...
> OMG!!!
>
> Gates got jail...brakie got off...
>
> Hard to believe that was 30years ago..

Time flies... also, (not to take the thread the wrong direction) I believe the warning whistle was disabled (or muffled) too.

And for the OP, great photo! I don't see any diesels though, I'd think for '56 or '57 there would be some in view?

All the locos mentioned showed sold for scrap in 1959. So no help there on a 56 or 57 date. Neat photo !! --- Ken

Is that not a Diesel above the tender of the M1 ??????

Malcolm
New Zealand.

Yes, that is a FM B unit being moved by the hostler and when the photo of the helper passes (will post later if question is answered), the B unit is directly above the helper. That sand is from the covered hopper cars of sand that came from around Bellefonte, and Mapleton. Sand was big business on the Middle Division. Thanks Ken for trying to work up a answer. "W", all this has nothing to do with Ricky Gates or engine sand pipe control. That seems quite stupid to think that anyone could guess that much sand came from diesel engines which don't even sit there as it is not a pit track, but clearly yard classification tracks. Any guess on which year this was taken? The EBT was idle at this date as that was the next stop in trip with older brother. And we saw a J-1 down grade on the Horseshoe during this visit. What date was the last use of J-1 engines on Horseshoe? And Just before the J-1 we saw the GM "Aerotrain" go west bound up the Horseshoe and on the west end of curve, pass that J-1 powered train. Did the Aerotrain run into 1957?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/17 16:45 by PlyWoody.

The tracks in the foreground are in the westbound class yard fed from the WJ Hump and not engine storage track.

Sand came out of Pennsylvania Sand Glass at Mapleton...Lime came out of Warner in Bellefonte.

Is this M1b train eastbound or westbound?

Thanks to all for the Correct Source of the sand pile acccumulations.
I stand corrected.
I appreciate the more accurate information.

W.

( at least I got the commodity right, & it wasn’t steam loco ash pan droppings )

I seem to remember around this time PRR leased some ATSF 2-10-4's for a few months for service in Indiana? Crews liked the oil fired locos so the story goes.

NKP779 Wrote:
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> Is this M1b train eastbound or westbound?
Who is qualitied on that railroad to say which direction the train is assigned? The photo is looking toward Tyrone and at the time of that photo was westbound on the Harrisburg to Pittsburg Main line, but if it came off the Snowshoe, would have been eastbound, but then on the Bald Eagle Valley was southbound or westbound.

The Bald Eagle was an east-west railroad. Park on the west end and Lock Haven on the east end.

I would be interested to know where the train picked up its helper.

If the train came off the Snow Shoe it would have encountered the westbound ruling grade on the Bald Eagle between Martha and just west of Port Matilda. The eastbound ruling grade was between Vail and Dix and trains were regularly pushed up Dix Hill. If the train came off the Clearfield Branch it wouldn't have encountered these grades. I suspect the helper was added at Tyrone as there were regular assigned protect and helpers at Tyrone as the grade picked up from Tyrone to Altoona.

The train is coming up the WB freight main and what I suspect will happen it will go over the BY connector track up into the eastbound receiving yard and then get weighed and humped off over the Juniata Scales.

Another point was the Snow Shoe was put up for abandonment in 1958. I guess the PRR had its fill of the switchbacks. The Clearfield Branch (Tyrone & Clearfield) was one of the first casualties of the 1968 merger. One of the benefits of the PC was the NYC's water level WBV between Clearfield and Keating. Much easier than the heavy grade and curvature of the T&C from Osceola Mills to Vail.

One other item the B unit looks like a Baldwin BF15 or BF16 B unit not a Fairbanks.

Wasn't that in Ohio on the line to Sandusky?

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com

ATSF3751 Wrote:
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> I seem to remember around this time PRR leased
> some ATSF 2-10-4's for a few months for service in
> Indiana? Crews liked the oil fired locos so the
> story goes.

If you go to a popular video website and search for it, there is great video/film of that. 1956 I think.

wabash2800 Wrote:
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> Wasn't that in Ohio on the line to Sandusky?
>
> Victor A. Baird
> http://www.erstwhilepublications.com
>
> ATSF3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I seem to remember around this time PRR leased
> > some ATSF 2-10-4's for a few months for service
> in
> > Indiana? Crews liked the oil fired locos so the
> > story goes.

The discovery of the Aerotrain in this set of photos has dated the trip to 1956 because the Aerotrain operated one year June 1956 to June 1957 from Philadelphia to Pittsburg after being cut back from NYC. Therefor the Snow Shoe coal train is Sunday 9/2/1956 as we traveled back to EBT and walked Mt Union, Orbisonia, Robertsdale and Alvan on Labor Day 9/3/1956. I took a entire car count of the whole EBT railroad but without actual car numbers, only number of cars by type because many cars did not show a numbers.

This attached photo is the pusher on the end of the coal train Sept 2, 1956 and that correction was welcome that the B unit is a Baldwin and the tapered side were not FM.
Note the clear stack from the #6921 as the fireman job is done and they are just tailing along down the Freight Main as they are arriving Altoona, PA. The passenger main line was to the left of these sandy yard tracks and the photo was taken off the employees overhead walk way into the East Altoona engine service facility. After this train passed, we took the chance and walked down into the yard and photographed every engine that was in storage and a few other live engines. No one confronted us but we were very carefull to step over rails, distant from end of equipment and quickly took our photos and moved out asap. Next day we had the entire freedom to move through all the cars at Mt. Union because the entire railroad shut down in April 1956 and was owned by the scrapper. Never expected those old hopper would still be sitting there 61 years later still with some coal in the pockets eating their way through the thin metal.

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How about geographic direction? "heading to Tyrone" or "heading towards Pittsburg"...........

NKP779 Wrote:
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> How about geographic direction? "heading to
> Tyrone" or "heading towards Pittsburg"...........

If you read the prior posts, the view is toward Tyrone from which the train came, and will terminate in a few miles at Altoona. Prior post said the first photo is a train moving westbound.

Fantastic pictures of long ago and far away!
Thanks,
Gonut