Steam & Excursion > The latest reason for 3985

There was a recent shop tour video which included a crew member giving a tour of the roundhouse; this included talking about the 3985. However when asked the reason for it not running, there was an explanation this time. Apparently there are problems with the firebox which crippled the engine. The claim was also made that the plan was to take 3985 along with 844 for the 50th celebration of the steam program (2010) but 3985's problems prevented that from happening.

Guess who was blamed?? THE PREVIOUS CREWS! And yes, plural because the reasoning went as far back as to blame the group of volunteers that initially restored the 3985 observing that they probably didn't have the resources to get it done. It was closed out with the typical phrase, "It will run again but it just needs a good rebuilding."

This was not from Ed but from one of his crew members (Bruce Kirk?)

Please let's keep this civil and not engage in pointless name calling and bashing. Now where is the popcorn???

Interesting how "the story" keeps changing over the years.

3985 pulled the Circus Train in September 2010. That's already more than 9 months into 2010 when it ran, so I find this info hard to believe.

And remember it was published that 3985 hadn't run since 2007, even though I caught it running (very well) in 2008. Also keep in mind 2010 was when I heard various rumors about the premature demise of 3985 and the possible restoration of a Big Boy (4014 wasn't mentioned yet).

My first reaction is that this is a preemptive "fact" to explain them borrowing parts from the 3985 for the 4014 restoration. How convenient it's the firebox. Superheater tubes are already gone, so that excuse can't be used.

If my speculation is true, it's sad the program can't even admit that straight up. I don't blame anyone if they are losing faith in humanity these days.

That engine ran for what,15- 20 years? So it seems to me it couldn't have had a very serious firebox problem in my opinion. But then, what do I know!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/17 07:05 by tomstp.

Would've been nice to have 3985 the last 7 years. The Big Boy should have been done if and only if the crew thought they could while keeping both 844 and 3985 operational. We saw how that went.

Another advantage to keeping 3985 running would be to have a crew experienced with the operation and nuances of a heavy articulated locomotive. That experience would transition quite well to operating Big Boy. Now, from an operating perspective, it appears to me that they may be going into 4014 operations with little experience.

Running any locomotive involves some seat of the pants input. Knowing what to "feel" for is often as important to the mechanical operation of the controls.

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That engine ran for what,15- 20 years? So it
> seems to me it couldn't have had a very serious
> firebox problem in my opinion. But then, what do
> I know!

Our committee got the 3985 operational in March of 1981. It ran until 2010 with a re-tube and flue job along the way and a try at some modifications to the firebox (after I had left). And then it was worked over in 2009 ( I think) once again before being mothballed at the end of 2011. So basically it served the UP's historical fleet for 29 years.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/17 15:04 by Bob3985.

RRBadTrack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another advantage to keeping 3985 running would be
> to have a crew experienced with the operation and
> nuances of a heavy articulated locomotive. That
> experience would transition quite well to
> operating Big Boy. Now, from an operating
> perspective, it appears to me that they may be
> going into 4014 operations with little
> experience.
>
> Running any locomotive involves some seat of the
> pants input. Knowing what to "feel" for is often
> as important to the mechanical operation of the
> controls.

Ed mentioned that feel when operating the 3985 in his presentation in Denver earlier this year. He mentioned the feel in the seat of the pants and the hand when its on the throttle.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting how "the story" keeps changing over
> the years.


It's gone from a condition to something else to something else to this. Am I missing a something else? Isn't there a boiler problem and a running gear problem mixed in there as well?

JMT-844-97 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Interesting how "the story" keeps changing over
> > the years.
>
>
> It's gone from a condition to something else to
> something else to this. Am I missing a something
> else? Isn't there a boiler problem and a running
> gear problem mixed in there as well?

No. Also, to be completely clear, the current manager "mothballed" 3985 during the early winter of 2011! She did operate fine in late 2010 (October or November?), all the way to the Kansas City area and back. Also again, the 50th anniversary of 844/8444/844 excursions to Omaha and back in late November 2010, was NEVER planned to have 3985 along, as the whole "event" was about 844 anyway!

There was not any "boiler problem" with 3985, and as soon as Steve Lee was retired and gone at the end of December 2010, the current manager began is plan to make sure 3985 NEVER RAN AGAIN!

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No. Also, to be completely clear, the current
> manager "mothballed" 3985 during the early winter
> of 2011! She did operate fine in late 2010
> (October or November?), all the way to the Kansas
> City area and back. Also again, the 50th
> anniversary of 844/8444/844 excursions to Omaha
> and back in late November 2010, was NEVER planned
> to have 3985 along, as the whole "event" was about
> 844 anyway!
>
> There was not any "boiler problem" with 3985, and
> as soon as Steve Lee was retired and gone at the
> end of December 2010, the current manager began is
> plan to make sure 3985 NEVER RAN AGAIN!

So more of Dickens' BS, what a surprise!!! I believe that 3985 was 2 weeks or so away from a break in run in 2011 and would have done the Little Rock Express but then 844 was substituted in.

JMT-844-97 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No. Also, to be completely clear, the current
> > manager "mothballed" 3985 during the early
> winter
> > of 2011! She did operate fine in late 2010
> > (October or November?), all the way to the
> Kansas
> > City area and back. Also again, the 50th
> > anniversary of 844/8444/844 excursions to Omaha
> > and back in late November 2010, was NEVER
> planned
> > to have 3985 along, as the whole "event" was
> about
> > 844 anyway!
> >
> > There was not any "boiler problem" with 3985,
> and
> > as soon as Steve Lee was retired and gone at
> the
> > end of December 2010, the current manager began
> is
> > plan to make sure 3985 NEVER RAN AGAIN!
>
> So more of Dickens' BS, what a surprise!!! I
> believe that 3985 was 2 weeks or so away from a
> break in run in 2011 and would have done the
> Little Rock Express but then 844 was substituted
> in.

Nope! The current manager had already had the Welder, Ed Smith, hydro test all the superheater units, that had been removed over the winter of 2010/2011, then had all those units placed on a flatcar, and fish out side, in order to be destroyed in the Wyoming winter weather. They were subsequently scraped. The 3985 was NEVER going to operate, once Steve Lee departed at the end of December, 2010!

I rode from St. Louis to Gorham, IL with Steve on 3985 in Oct 2010 and also rode it out from St. Louis to Pacific, MO the next morning and she seemed just fine, no mention of firebox problems are anything. Steamed nicely.
I'll just leave this out here...............

Frisco1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I rode from St. Louis to Gorham, IL with Steve on
> 3985 in Oct 2010 and also rode it out from St.
> Louis to Pacific, MO the next morning and she
> seemed just fine, no mention of firebox problems
> are anything. Steamed nicely.
> I'll just leave this out here...............


That's enough proof I need. I will also put this out there: the previous crew was accused of shortcutting the work and they just ran it that year. Totally believable right???

JMT-844-97 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frisco1522 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I rode from St. Louis to Gorham, IL with Steve
> on
> > 3985 in Oct 2010 and also rode it out from St.
> > Louis to Pacific, MO the next morning and she
> > seemed just fine, no mention of firebox
> problems
> > are anything. Steamed nicely.
> > I'll just leave this out here...............
>
>
> That's enough proof I need. I will also put this
> out there: the previous crew was accused of
> shortcutting the work and they just ran it that
> year. Totally believable right???

Well, none of the current manager's butt-kissers, can remember the lies from, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016, in order to properly recite them this late in the game. Not to mention the more than 200% (or is it 250% now?) turnover in personnel, so no wonder they can't keep their stores straight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/17 12:51 by HotWater.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, none of the current manager's butt-kissers,
> can remember the lies from, 2011, 2012, 2013,
> 2014, 2015, and 2016, in order to properly recite
> them this late in the game. Not to mention the
> more than 200% (or is it 250% now?) turnover in
> personnel, so know wonder they can't keep their
> stores straight.

Strange how the guys on facebook have been rather quiet.....

JMT-844-97 Wrote: > Guess who was blamed?? THE PREVIOUS CREWS...

WHOA!!! I didn't know donnie chump was running the steam program now-a-days...

Posted from Android

The great leader was proclaiming in 2009 and 2010, when he was only a fireman, that 3985 would never run again. When it ran and ran well in both of those years, he looked pretty foolish.

Whoever said 3985 was close to making a break-in run early in 2011 was spot on.

2 VERY HIGHLY experienced and credentialed boilermakers had her almost ready. Then, their new boss, who had 0 experience in boiler work and had never struck an arc to weld anything, pronounced the firebox unfit for service. For reasons that keep changing and not one of which has ever been verified.

The craftsmen were incensed at this power-play by a rank amatuer, and they both resigned, becoming the first 2 employees in what became a parade of experienced long-time employees who grew tired of being insulted and blamed for the leader's screwups, and one-by-one they resigned, transfered to other jobs, or retired, until all were gone, replaced by rank amateurs
Who happened to be yes-men who would never challenge anything the boss said.

It is difficult not to conclude that that result was not the goal all along.

Any questions about why it took 3 years to clean out 844's boiler and firebox after a couple of years of the genius' "new and better" methods and products than those rum-dums who preceeded him?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/17 09:20 by Realist.

santafe199 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JMT-844-97 Wrote: > Guess who was blamed?? THE
> PREVIOUS CREWS...
>
> WHOA!!! I didn't know donnie chump was running the
> steam program now-a-days...
>
> Posted from Android

So what does politics have to do with this discussion?

-Dave



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/17 20:03 by dbesade.

And next we will find out that the frame is bent.

Out