Steam & Excursion > This Is Not The Landscape We Usually Think Of For These Engines!

While Southern Pacific's Cab-Forwards were initially designed for the tunnels and snow sheds of Donner Pass, they soon found favor all over the SP system. Here we see them far from the pass they were first meant to conquer.

The date is July 1951 and SP #4227 and one of her sister cab-Forwards is passing through Mojave, California on a long passenger train.

The engine crew has all their windows and roof vents open to deal with the heat of the desert surroundings they have found themselve in.

At least the crew on the lead engine, #4227, enjoys some breeze in their faces thanks to the design of these engines.


Martin



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/18 04:48 by LoggerHogger.

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Cool shot. Thanks for posting it.

ʎɹɹɐ˥

Did the T&E crews favor the cab forward design over the 'standard'?

I've heard of and seen photo's of SP cab forwards being used in the southern California deserts so I was wondering what all the fuss in the title was about when I saw the photo.

Heck, landscape not usually thought of for SP cab forwards would probably be more like mid-western or eastern! :-P

Cheers, Jim

Beautiful shot from a familiar territory. Those cab forwards just pulled that humongous passenger train over the Tehachapi Pass and is now crossing the western Mojave Desert through Mojave, Lancaster, and Palmdale. The helper will be needed again shortly when the train has to climb over the San Gabriel Mountains to get into Los Angeles. The SP many times just kept their helpers tied on because they would need them again soon. That train is seriously a string of HEAVYWEIGHTS.

Looking at the second engine the old saying comes to mind. "If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes".

I can't imagine a passenger train being so long as to require two of these beasts!

Scott Griggs
Louisville, KY

The physics of mountain railroading to make schedule is to have enough horsepower per trailing ton to make passenger train speeds to make schedule. One locomotive could pull the train but not make schedule. As many passenger trains that were running in that era if you could not maintain schedules your railroad bogged down really quick.

Train 58, the Owl. Oakland to LA overnight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/18 07:07 by nedzarp.

He has been through many tunnels between Bakersfield and Tehachapi and will face a few more before getting to Los Angeles, the ones ahead of him are all on downgrade though so the worst of the tunnel exhaust is behind him.
They were real utility locomotives, IIRC the SP did not order any more new heavy freight power after they were fully developed in the late 20s. (Giving a pass to the GS-6 4-8-4 war time engines as "dual service" to get them past the War Production Board.)

While chatting with a retired SP hogger in SLO about 20 years ago, he said that he "Hated those cab-forwards." Said that he felt too exposed riding up front.
Bill Pyper
Salem, OR
(ex-SLO)

Double-headed 4-8-8-2 cab-forwards regularly assigned to heavy passenger trains are - so far as I know - unique in world history. The two engines have a total of 248,600 lbs tractive effort, and were rated at 60mph max*, curves and track permitting. Nowhere else in the world did any other railroad regularly assign this much heavy fast power to a mountain passenger train.

- Doug Debs


*per SP employees' timetable Special Instructions.

Back in the '40s and '50s up until diesels took over, most SP Passenger trains over Tehachapi were pulled by cab forwards except for the SJ Daylight, which usually had either two MTs or GS-4s between Bakersfield and LA.
Also, 58 didn't usually have a helper. Those engines were real workhorses on passenger and freight here in those days.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

While SP was looking for new power and there was serious talk of cabforwards when SP decided to buy F units. At one point when decision time came around, SP had 100 more AC's in mind and numbered 4800-4899...If this would have happened, I wonder just how long the AC's would still be in service...the plan was to retired the 4-6-6-2's, 2-8-8-2's and be replaced by AC's...

Wonder why the West End Herder didn't line No. 58 through the crossovers and onto the No. 1 track for the stop at Mojave?

Another train was sitting there already?

ʎɹɹɐ˥

They'd surely have a good view of the track ahead, but they probably did give you the feeling of being in the front seat of of a million plus pound, Volkswagen Combi Bus. I think I remember hearing about one of these hitting a fuel truck of some sort, with not good results. I don't suppose it wouldn't help much to be in a rear cab either, in that case. Impacting vehicles at 50-60 mph might throw parts through the front glass, and into the cab.

Maybe they should have put a six wheel lead truck under them, and a "Snoot" on the front. Now I'm going to take flack.

Craig Hanson
Vay, Idaho

Long ago I spoke to a fellow who had been a fireman out of SLO where they kept a few Cab forwards for service over Cuesta Grade. He said that he found the cab forwards were difficult to fire because the exhaust was behind them and so much of their "art" in firing the locomotive was dependent upon observing the color of the exhaust smoke. Black smoke is bad, Grey smoke you can do better, White smoke is good and a Clear Stack all is right with the world!

BCHellman wrote:

> Wonder why the West End Herder didn't line No. 58 through the crossovers and onto the No. 1 track for the stop at Mojave?

How do you know he didn't? The train hasn't reached the crossovers yet in the photo.

johnsweetser Wrote:
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> BCHellman wrote:
>
> > Wonder why the West End Herder didn't line No.
> 58 through the crossovers and onto the No. 1 track
> for the stop at Mojave?
>
> How do you know he didn't? The train hasn't
> reached the crossovers yet in the photo.


Because the top-arm of the signal is in the clear position and the lower-arm, diverging-route, signal is in the stop position. This indicates the crossover is lined straight, down the No. 2 main track.