Steam & Excursion > Western Maryland 1309 Update 7/13/18

Here's an update on 1309's restoration:

https://westernmarylandscenicrailroad.blogspot.com/

A blurb from the post:

"With the FRA hydro completed the momentum is building towards a test fire of her massive boiler"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/18 11:24 by ut-1.

As a donor I'm pleased to read of this forward progress. Let's hope that the fact that momentum has again been achieved that the State and/or County might step back up to the plate with the 6 figure funding needed to take this project over the goal line.

   Hope springs eternal.

   Ross Rowland

Great news! Glad to see they've changed their tune and going forward for the restoration. Although I have to ask what prompted it...did someone come forward with a donation? Management change?

Regardless, it's still good news. Full steam ahead!!!

It's very good news for sure and I cannot wait till the 1309 is under steam.  Please, everyone on TrainOrders who loves steam, send in donations NOW so that it gets completed.
And Ross, I hope that you can get there when it's running and that you get the opportunity to be the engineer for one of the trips.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

Now....what about the damaged and stolen brasses? The engine can’t move without,them.  And, by the way, is that thief in jail yet?

Keystone1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now....what about the damaged and stolen brasses?
> The engine can’t move without,them.  And, by
> the way, is that thief in jail yet?

Very good point. Everyone is all enthralled about the boiler, but the necessary work on the running gear is much more important, in my opinion. Items like the stolen driving box brasses, the drivers having to go back for additional machine work (this time to the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum Shop), etc., etc., etc..

Is there any chance of borrowing parts from other locomotives, even to duplicate and return them? No matter what, foundry work is not cheap.

Rebecca Morgan
Jacobsburg, OH

OHCR1551 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there any chance of borrowing parts from other
> locomotives, even to duplicate and return them? No
> matter what, foundry work is not cheap.

I should think so. The guys restoring AT&SF 2926 have borrowed parts from the Pueblo Railroad Museum's AT&SF 2921 for replication.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keystone1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Now....what about the damaged and stolen
> brasses?
> > The engine can’t move without,them.  And, by
> > the way, is that thief in jail yet?
>
> Very good point. Everyone is all enthralled about
> the boiler, but the necessary work on the running
> gear is much more important, in my opinion. Items
> like the stolen driving box brasses, the drivers
> having to go back for additional machine work
> (this time to the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum
> Shop), etc., etc., etc..

Doing a test fire of the boiler and using that for publicity, etc, could help generate enthusiasm and excitement that the project can complete which just might help them get donations needed to finish all the other work. After a lot of doom and gloom over this project in the last year I for one and happy that it is moving forward again. I really would love to see 1309 under steam an would happily make the 2000 mile trip to do so. Maybe it's time to make another donation.

TexasRocket Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OHCR1551 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is there any chance of borrowing parts from
> other
> > locomotives, even to duplicate and return them?
> No
> > matter what, foundry work is not cheap.
>
> I should think so. The guys restoring AT&SF 2926
> have borrowed parts from the Pueblo Railroad
> Museum's AT&SF 2921 for replication.

Just my opinion but, "borrowing parts" from another identical Santa Fe 2900 class 4-8-4 is one thing, as there are quite a few saved. However, "borrowing parts" from the only other C&O H6 2-6-6-2, on display in Huntington, WV, might be a whole different story, especially since the "parts/components" in question are running gear machinery.

Keystone1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now....what about the damaged and stolen brasses?
> The engine can’t move without,them.  And, by
> the way, is that thief in jail yet?

Have there been any changes in this organization that will prevent any future thefts?   I'd like to donate to this project, but I need reliable assurances that changes have been made that will prevent any future thefts.

What is the WMSR planning to do about the abrupt change in grade from the area just before the turntable to the turntable?

Does the WMSR have enough passenger cars in good condition to handle the expected number of passengers?

TIA for any info!

Brain fog due to weather stress--I couldn't remember where the other survivor was or if they were actually identical. Of course, the  amount of wear, etc. will matter a lot on anything that needs to stand up to running stress.  
One of the smartest parts of the T1 project is all the blueprint scanning and part documentation. Even if 3D printing hasn't come into its own yet, it's getting there.

Rebecca Morgan
Jacobsburg, OH

Other survivor is in Huntington, WVA.

A LONG time ago, I had crawled all over both of them ..

IMHO, there are probably many other sources of suitable, similar driving boxes from other classes, other locos that would fit, just fine.

( My biggest concern about “all new machining”  of the crown brasses and axles is the new tolerances being too ‘tight’ —- As I’ve said, during the wearing-in process the two rubbing surfaces will heat up...the axle wil expand in diameter and the brasses will expand—- brasses are pressed into the driving box.  The box being cold, forces the expanding brass to “clamp-down” harder on the axles —- .005” to .010” total “clearance” machined-into ( automotive-era thinking), the ckearances of two new surfaces will disappear , severe overheating will result....
Dont even try to give them ‘factory-new’ tolerances... What for?  With plenty of new “free play” , they’ll STILL go an easy 150,000 Miles ...hub-wear is the true area of concern, anyway).

Re: the grade elevation changes at the turntable...

I suspect that the old coal branch-lines in W. Va, had WAY more rugged and sloppy track to contend with...up all them
old  “west -virginy hollers and gullies”.  One of the advantages of these engines is their Shay-like ability to slither along very uneven tracks and swtickbacks, etc.  The spring rigging will handle the uneven track just FINE.  Theses engine ain’t so delicate, the builders and the customer knew how to design & build engines for this type of service...notice they used NO ROLLER bearings.
Un-like the N&W J-class engines, these flexible-fellas took to those hills & hollers just like Bre’r Rabbit in th briar-patch...

W.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/18 01:52 by wcamp1472.

As a WAG, I’d bet that a few phone calls would scare up a couple of dozen candidates of spare driver brasses/driving boxes...that would fit 1309, to a Tee...

Many ‘museums’, steam operating tourist operations, have whole boxcars full of parts ...: probably over a hundred boxcars of parts are sitting around the U.S of A., probably with dozens of viable candidates. Only a couple of critical dimensions, for an inquiry list, would get you a phone list of good candidates to go check out...

I can think of an easy dozen places to ask around...from Cheyenne, to Savannah, from Maine to California...Scranton to Grand Canyon.... Plus, I know several folks, who know right now, where to get ideal replacements ...

OR, you could spend another 3/4 $$ million dollars and cast, machine and manufacture a couple of brand new, shiny journal boxes, that would probably overheat on break-in runs, anyway...

IMHO...

W.

Posted from iPhone

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Re: the grade elevation changes at the
> turntable...
>
> I suspect that the old coal branch-lines in W. Va,
> had WAY more rugged and sloppy track to contend
> with...up all them
> old  “west -virginy hollers and gullies”.
>  One of the advantages of these engines is their
> Shay-like ability to slither along very uneven
> tracks and swtickbacks, etc.  The spring rigging
> will handle the uneven track just FINE.  Theses
> engine ain’t so delicate, the builders and the
> customer knew how to design & build engines for
> this type of service...notice they used NO ROLLER
> bearings.
> Un-like the N&W J-class engines, these
> flexible-fellas took to those hills & hollers just
> like Bre’r Rabbit in th briar-patch...
>
> W.

Wes,

The "issue" with the track entering the turntable in question is not "original", and thus was never used by any steam locomotive, whether articulated or not. The curve and grade approaching that turntable is something in excess of 2.5% to 3%, through a curve, and then suddenly changes to dead flat onto the turntable. Even when the WMSR was operating the big 2-8-0, the engine crew stated that it was VERY noticeable every time the engine went on and off the turntable.

Such a serious vertical transition could NOT be very good for the articulation connection of the front engine to the frame on 1309. Even back in the good old days, I would bet that the C&O never and any track/grade mis-alignments such as that. Such vertical transitions would be expected on logging railroads which operated geared locomotives.

OK, Jack,

If they ever get done tinkering wth the 1309, I’ll meet you at Frostburg & bet you a Six-pack of Iron City beer
that 1309 maybe clunks a LOT, but still waltzes onto and off their turntable, with NO SWEAT.

Hey, it’s a 1915 design, for goodness’ sake..

W.


( there’s enough wobble designed into that hinge pin & the spring rigging to handle that, unless some genius
“automotive -machinist “ messed it up, ‘cause he thought he knew better. I’ve seen & lived that too often).

Posted from iPhone

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, Jack,
>
> If they ever get done tinkering wth the 1309,
> I’ll meet you at Frostburg & bet you a Six-pack
> of Iron City beer
> that 1309 maybe clunks a LOT, but still waltzes
> onto and off their turntable, with NO SWEAT.
>
> Hey, it’s a 1915 design, for goodness’ sake..
>
> W.
>
>
> ( there’s enough wobble designed into that hinge
> pin & the spring rigging to handle that, unless
> some genius
> “automotive -machinist “ messed it up,
> ‘cause he thought he knew better. I’ve seen &
> lived that too often).

You may be right, Wes. But, to do that maneuver day-in and day-out, month after month, surely will NOT be conducive for long life of the just rebuilt running gear and that articulation connection.

I don’t know about the1948 1300s,
but, some articulateds, in the early 20th century were fitted wth two articulating pins, one vertical and one horizontal, so the designers knew and were aware of your concerns..

However, being keen on competitive/market influences and economies of design, many engineers reasoned how to accomplish the same flexibility, at less cost...

My money’s on the the easy vertical accommodation-route as being part of the reasoned approach to that problem. No designer would put a loco out the factory doors with too tight a fit at that critical joint.

I’m looking forward to that tall, cold beer 🍻 !!!

w

Posted from iPhone

I trust Gary Bensman implicitly in his managing of the 1309 project.

He’s well educated on a huge variety of steam loco projects.
He stands behind his work, and accesses some of the best minds in the steam restoration world...

He’s no novice.
His judgement is sound.

‘Nuff said.

W.

Posted from iPhone

Were the drive axle brasses that were stolen removed from the locomotive during its restoration or were they newly-manufactured?

Scott Griggs
Louisville, KY