Steam & Excursion > The Up #844 Accident -Freeze Frame -Shows What Actually Happened!

There has been some confusion as to actually what happened in this weekend's fatality involving a woman taking photos with her phone and UP #844.  This freeze frame shows what actually occurred.  I will not post the video as it would offend some.  This photo shows how easy one can lose sight of their surroundings.  This is a lesson to all of us.

As you can see the woman is indeed standing partially on the ties on the fireman's side of the train.  You can see the fireman waving frantically at her to move out of the way but, sadly, she did not heed the warnings.

This incident is likely to have repercussions on such steam trips in the future.  Only time will tell.  We can only feel sorry for both the family of the woman who made this mistake and for the crew that could not have done anything to avoid it.

Martin



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/18 03:23 by LoggerHogger.

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Might (way) early opening of the cylinder cocks would have startled her.... to jump clear?

Being on the other side of the cab,
would make it very hard to have the engine-driver comprehend
( possibly excited & panicked emotions of the fireman) & react to the impending demise.

Had she moved-in, too close, at the last minute to get the picture, or was she ‘planted’ for an extended prior period?

She appears to be looking thru some sort of image-capturing device & not aware of the frantic warning/waving by the fireman..

I’m presuming the the speed of the train was slow to modest, or was it a sprightly, cruising-speed?

However, it’s clear that anything short of a rope would NOT have yanked her out of the way...

W.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/18 08:59 by wcamp1472.

it was going about 50 , plenty of whistle              so sad                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14xbsubeb2Y       https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=CvAJz_1532292468

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/18 07:24 by dan.

Wes,

If you watch the video of the accident, she was planted there on the tracks and never moved.  The train was apparently going 60 mph but she still did not move.

She is clearly holding a cell phone or tablet to take a video.

Martin



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/18 05:07 by LoggerHogger.

It is too bad for the locomotive crew and her family that she was so stupud as to stand at the edge of the ties with such a big machine coming at you.
On many steam chases of late  I have seen many people with ther cell phones having to stand as close to the rail as thay can and people with cell phones have no respect not only for the train but for the other photographers.  They don't  respect a photo line and will just jump in front of all other photographers to get close.  For some reason people forget tht a steam locomotive is a BIG machine.  Tey must have 1 mm lenes.
  Too bad.  Hope UP will continue to run steam and the police will be tollerent of the photographers.  On the 844 trip two years ago the UP police were great.  Allowed plenty of access and everything worked out all right.  Only time the police restricted people was at servie stop.  They did not want people in gauge of track and wanted you to stay back a little so they could service the locomotive..  UP Police really did a great job and I hope it does not chage.

I am sure the authorities are looking at her footage if the phone/pad survived.

I think that she was so involved in the photo/movie, she did not realize that the locomotive was that close. I have seen people do that.

Did Ed blow the whistle at the crossing? I cannot tell. Obviously and tragically the woman was just not aware of her surroundings.

Tragic

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/18 07:24 by CPRR.

After watching this there were also people on the engineer side pointing to the woman trying to warn the engineer. Unfortunately this looks like just a sad and unfortunate accident. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/18 07:28 by Emmo213.

my scanner was off so i had no idea, went back there and all the witnesses were in shock, i didn't see anyone with her,  she may have been local?

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Might (way) early opening of the cylinder cocks
> would have startled her.... to jump clear?

Excellent point! I remember the three different Engineers I fired for on the previous UP Steam Crew, used to open the cylinder cocks quite often, and that action sure seemed to "move 'em back".


> Being on the other side of the cab,
> would make it very hard to have the engine-driver
> comprehend & react to the impending demise.
>
> Had she moved-in, too close, at the last minute to
> get the picture, or was she ‘planted’ for an
> extended prior period?

After watching the entire video that was posted, and long since removed, she appeared to be "planted there" for quite some time.


> She appears to be looking thru some sort of
> image-capturing device & not aware of the frantic
> warning/waving by the fireman..
>
> I’m presuming the the speed of the train was
> slow to modest, or was it a sprightly,
> cruising-speed?

I've seen a number of different speeds posted. From 50 MPH to 35 MPH. Again, viewing the drone video, the train didn't seem to be moving very, very fast. Maybe closer to 35 MPH, as a guess.

> However, it’s clear that anything short of a
> rope would NOT have yanked her out of the way...
>
> W.
 

Why do you need to get that close to get a decent photo?  People need to get their heads out of their phone and be aware of their surroundings. Can't tell you many time's I've almost been run over at the airport by people walking while looking at their phones like it's the end of the world if they don't see their last-est message etc. Even fencing won't keep these idiots back. When the Flying Scotsman made it's first runs after it's latest restoration, so called fans even climbed fencing (which is in place on all U.K. railways) to get a better photo resulting in the train coming to stand until the hordes were cleared away. OF course had anyone been run over, it would have been the evil polluting steam trains fault. 

There will be conflicting opinions I'm sure, but from my view of the video they did whistle for the crossing, (there has been music added to the video now) and there was no warning or even acknowledgement of the unfortunate persons proximity to the gauge by the others trackside, not at all. Everyone was completely focused on their devices and the approaching train even as the impact occurred. The fireman was the only one who made a valiant but futile effort to wave her away and while I sympathize with all involved, especially the woman and her family, my heart goes out to him particularly as he had the grim duty of watching something that they see over and over on every trip only to have the person "in the way" step aside at the last minute come to the worst possible end. I also am confident the head end crew were doing everything "by the book" and will be absolved of any responsibility, but that certainly doesn't make this tragic yet totally avoidable accident any easier for them to deal with. If you take a broad view of the scene, no-one trackside was doing the right thing. People standing in the gauge, to close, one with his back to the scene, but who was at least out of the way taking a "selfie"...there is a lot to be learned from this I think.

Dave

I'm so sorry for the woman, her family, the operating crew, passengers, and bystanders--an awful end to a typically, joyful set to activities.   I'm sure there will be a fair amount of hand wringing over what preventative measures could have been reasonably taken.  The film certainly illustrates that other bystanders had a grasp of situational awareness that the fallen soul didn't.  Such a simple careless act with potential to have far reaching implications regarding the trackside steam spectacle. This exemplifies one of the many tragedies of this type; when people randomly go out to do or see something interesting, and their excitement induces  catastrophic lapses in judgment.  It would be a shame to deprive thousands and thousands of people a joyful experience due to such an unfortunate moment.  She could have just as easily tried to get a "great shot" of a passing freight for an interested party with the same unfortunate ending.  As a society we just have to accept that people can exhibit moments of extremely poor decision making that yield horrible results.  Ultimately , you can't safeguard against this, as  variabilities in competence, related to personality, intellect, experience, age, and situation are just too great.  This was a sad byproduct of human two activities that just got too close to one another; it literally happens all the time, involving many modes of movement.  She wasn't the first and most certainly won't be the last.  We must be ever vigilant , trying to avoid the unfavorable, but life must goes on, lest we just give up an every non-padded pursuit.

I don't care how much anyone reviews this video, reviews the procedures of the crew or any eyewitness accounts. It appears the victim was totally at fault. You can HEAR AND SEE the train coming for literally hundreds if not thousands of feet as evidenced by the high flying drone.  It was a well publicized event. The weather appears to be clear and other bystanders were out of the way. If you are not cognizant of the fact that a 1000 ton train is coming at you, you gonna get run over. No amount of crew training, warning horns or lights or other safety measures used by the railroad is going to change the outcome. You can't fix STUPID.   

I just saw a YouTube video taken near 120th, 4 blocks south of the incident. At the beginning, you can hear them whistle for the crossing, then not long after they finish the thick plumes come pouring out as they went into emergency. The part of the video that really sucks is after it's stopped you can see someone from the fireman's side take a short walk, almost seems to be trying to gather himself, and one can only guess how awful he must have felt right there.

Copy/paste the link to view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbMvvvDFkMw
~wko

The person appears to be walking up to the front of the train to check on the point of impact.

Martin

It seems common sense is becoming a scarce commodity.  The older I get the more of it I see and I just shake my head in disbelief.

I hope no one files a suit against UP on this.   But, you can bet some lawyer will contact the family and tell them they are entitled to mucho bucks and the "free shot"
will be taken.   Juries seem  to  rule against the "big bad railroad"  time and time again  even though the dead person caused the whole thing..

Railroads went to a lot of expense to put forward looking Video Cameras in engines to try to prevent such verdicts but, they have had little effect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/18 13:14 by tomstp.

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems common sense is becoming a scarce
> commodity.  The older I get the more of it I see
> and I just shake my head in disbelief.

Got to disagree with you on that.  I can easily think back 30 years and recall some GROSSLY stupid conduct around steam trips that only averted a similar outcome to this tragedy by pure dumb luck.

Z

I remember a number of times that Jack hollered across the cab to me for cylinder cocks and I would always oblige.
Then he had some words of wisdom for the person as we passed them. Jack and I worked pretty good as partners getting over the railroad.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

gandydancer4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't care how much anyone reviews this video,
> reviews the procedures of the crew or any
> eyewitness accounts. It appears the victim was
> totally at fault. You can HEAR AND SEE the train
> coming for literally hundreds if not thousands of
> feet as evidenced by the high flying drone.  It
> was a well publicized event. The weather appears
> to be clear and other bystanders were out of the
> way. If you are not cognizant of the fact that a
> 1000 ton train is coming at you, you gonna get run
> over. No amount of crew training, warning horns or
> lights or other safety measures used by the
> railroad is going to change the outcome. You can't
> fix STUPID.   

I concur, to be honest I am a bit skeptical if this is an accident or not. It would be interesting to know if she had health problems or such, for example if she had cancer and she made a decision to herself to do this then the family sues gets money while the whole time looking like an accident. Who really knows for sure but the one thing I keep thinking is she knew she was right beside the track, she knew the train was coming towards her after that... I've got nothing....
I do feel bad for her family as well as the crew nobody should have to experience this.

Posted from Android

With forward visibility being what it is on a locomotive like 844, has anyone considered mounting something like an aftermarket backup camera on the front of the locomotive? It wouldn't completely eliminate the issue, but at least it would improve it.

Posted from Android