Steam & Excursion > Big Boy oil burner conversion

Any reports on the effectiveness of the new oil burner conversion?   From trackside, it seemed to work pretty well.  

Ed told me it's firing almost as good as 844. He's very pleased with it so far.
Steve

It does very well with 8 to 10 cars, another steamer sharing the load and a trailing dismal..
😃

W.

( shame on me, but I couldn’t resist...)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/19 09:54 by wcamp1472.

It wasn't much of a difficult  conversion when you strip all the firing equipment from one locomotive for another. It fires like the 3985.

CS                

One thing I noticed the last several days of chasing them is that I never once see the pressure safeties lift on either the 844 or 4014. Before anyone corrects me I will say I don't know if they are supposed to very often. I have observed in the past that the 844 would lift frequently. Would this suggest that they are running a bit lower pressure and on purpose?
I did overhear Bruce Kirk tell someone in the crowd that this obviously is the breaking run and that he said this trip would do it for the break in.
I was not next to the 4014 the entire trip across Wyoming but I can say from standing by crossings as it goes by is that 4014 was doing very little work and the 844 bearing most of the load. I was going by the stack talk. There was however a very short stretch north of Laramie that we could sure tell they opened the 4014 up.

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bankshotone Wrote:
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> One thing I noticed the last several days of
> chasing them is that I never once see the pressure
> safeties lift on either the 844 or 4014. Before
> anyone corrects me I will say I don't know if they
> are supposed to very often. I have observed in the
> past that the 844 would lift frequently. Would
> this suggest that they are running a bit lower
> pressure and on purpose?

It is required that the lowest safety valve be lifted and reported on the inspection report at the start of the day. 
Anything beyond that is a waste of fuel (and firemans' labor on handfired engines). 

A good fireman can keep the engine within 5 psi of blowing the "pops" all day without blowing them, and fire efficiently.  There's no way to know, from the ground, whether he's efficient, or intentionally keeping the pressure low.  It's easy to be a poor fireman, and I tremendously respect the skill of a good one.

As a "Rule of Thumb", blowing the safeties wastes about 50 lbs. of coal per minute.  (I know nothing about oil burners.)  (Probably more on a Big Boy than the engines I've handled.)   At $150 a ton, that's about $3.0 mi

-LD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/19 16:38 by LarryDoyle.

Running as a soak, 300 psi might be a stretch.

Out

Even as a ‘soak’,  there’s plenty of fuel behind that firing-valve available to get the “pos up”....any time you choose.

The REAL challenge is maintaining an even pressure....pressure and temperature are closely linked...
The problem with widely varying pressures is the thermal cycling, expansion/contraction cycles, of the steel componentents....

LarryDoyle’s  drawing, earlier, shows the immensity of that firebox...the straight sheets expand and contract to a great degree...
The sheets expand, forward, away from the door-sheet, at the rear of the firebox, forward....imagine the total expansion at the front  of the firebox.   Another problem is aggravated by bathe fact that the outer wrapper sheet of the firebox is at water temperature..the fireside temps can raise under the influence of a 3,000 deg. fire in the box.... that’s a frightening temperature gradient,
expansion-wise, & cycling challenges..

Running as lightly this trip, the crucial requirement is to minimize the thermal-cycling of those large sheets.
With little or no train, the repeated ups-and-downs of temperature swings, over time, is very destructive to the joints and tension members under stress.

With no strong, steady draft, it is nearly impossible to keep an even firebox temperature.    
It’s  a good thing that the safeties are quiet, but you still have no way to determine the thermal cycling stresses, unless you’re
in the cab...  It’s probably pretty boring..... but, you can ring the bell and blow the whistle without affecting the boiler adversely.

I hadn’t known about the missing parts for the USMP rod packing assembly,  no wonder it’s not “taking-up”,  by now.
In today’s world there are more suitable solutions to the problem, than trying to reproduce the original.

Today’s rod-sealing products are available off-the-shelf....and probably far superior to the old solutions.
I’m just puzzled about how it got put back-together, with crucial packing pieces missing...or, I may have the wrong information..
Oh, well.

​W.



 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/19 16:27 by wcamp1472.

The usual people continue to make usual derogatory, untrue comments.

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WaterBoy Wrote:
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> The usual people continue to make usual
> derogatory, untrue comments.

OK, what is "untrue"?

Untrue statements:
1. Running as a soak.
2. Running (more than a few pounds) less that 300 psi.
3. Sharing the trainload with the diesel.

much of the trip they ran under load from diesel

Correct, diesel has been dynamic brake, to help with drafting and even out firebox temps.

The 2 dozen or more times that I stood track side while the consist rolled by the 4014 was not under load at all. The 844 however was certainly barking pretty good. I do not know what a diesel should sound like under dynamic braking but it was idling as it rolled by as well. I thought to my self "I drove 900 miles for this? 🤔"
Please understand I'm not criticizing or complaining I had a great time and got some great pics and videos and spent a pile of money as well.

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Is your screen name “Waterboy” since it’s your job to carry the water for the current UP Steam crew on here?

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Put a 50 car loaded grain train behind 4014, without the diesel, then we will see.

A soak, YES...
This whole exercise got NOWHERE near enough draft to get near superheat conditions..saturated was all they could manage...

A single unit in braking is not much braking...
Even reported here that 844 did most of the work 

That non-existent rod packing, if under strong pressure from the boiler would have soaked the engineer with wet steam, if they’d had a real trailing load.

Big Boys are very powerful machines, but you gotta get them to superheat ...which takes at least 4 units in full dynamic to hold him back...if above 40 -per.... and T/M braking current is reduced by current-limiting circuitry ...

W

Wes,

Seemingly no one on this thread and others seemed to have been present for the show last Sunday. Anyone that was there will agree; that engine was working, got herself dry, and hot.
Notice that the steam escaping the leaking packing gland is hardly visible on the hill. Notice the light haze that Austin was carrying. Listen to any video of her work up through Echo Canyon. Granted not at capacity, but she worked.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/19 19:16 by NathanNon-Lifting.

Truth...I’ve seen,and videoed,numerous runbys from the entrance into Weber Canyon to as far as Laramie. On a few of the upgrades the 4014 was in fact working,albeit not very hard,for all the reasons already mentioned I suppose. Not having any experience in how a Bigboy sounded in regular service under tremendous load,I can’t comment on the veracity of the bark,but there was some on a few of the Runbys. I do have quite a bit of experience hearing the 4449,2101,and 614 working to their max and know how a hard working steam loco sounds. I experienced nothing close to that this week. Most of the runbys just had the whoosh whoosh sound of the leaking steam from the packing issue. On the downgrades it was completely obvious the deisel was in dynamic braking,the sound drowning out the steam sounds,other then the whoosh whoosh sounds.
   That being said,I’m totally satisfied right now just seeing one run at all,even it if is nowhere near what they were built to do,and in all likelihood being pushed around quite a bit. Maybe in the near future,after the bugs are worked out,it will run under better circumstances and perform closer to its as built ability.

    Tom



NathanNon-Lifting Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wes,
>
> Seemingly no one on this thread and others
> seemed to have been present for the show last
> Sunday. Anyone that was there will agree; that
> engine was working, got herself dry, and hot.
> Notice that the steam escaping the leaking
> packing gland is hardly visible on the hill.
> Notice the light haze that Austin was carrying.
> Listen to any video of her work up through Echo
> Canyon. Granted not at capacity, but she worked.

Any one who was there in person and knows what to listen for knows 844 was working hard. And the 70ACe stayed in notch 2 or 3 the entire time. I saw it 5 times the first day and the engine RPM on the 70ACe didn't change. When you have a deadline and spend the first 6 months having brag sessions then try to throw it together with in the last 72 hours before your deadline it doesn't look good.

And the Diesel wasn't in dynamic like every one has tried to say. Dynamic brake fans make a distinct sound. The generator car that was behind the Diesel has cooling fans that most people are confusing.

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