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Date: 06/10/19 12:32
1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: LTCerny

My understanding is that the ex-C&O 2-6-6-2 #1309 trips on the WMSR for July have been postponed until furthur notice.  Any official confirmation?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/19 12:42 by LTCerny.



Date: 06/10/19 12:35
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: ClubCar

LTCerny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My understanding is that the ex-C&O 2-6-6-2 #1309
> trips on the WMSR for July have been postponed
> until further notice.  Any official confirmation?

Where did you get your information?  Are you starting a rumor?
John in White Marsh, Maryland



Date: 06/10/19 12:38
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: LTCerny

The Steam Train Diary website in Britain shows these trips as postponed.



Date: 06/10/19 12:48
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: swirsk53

Western Maryland Scenic Website reads as follows:More information will be released in June for when the 1309 will hit the rails and ticket sales are opened back up.  If you want to follow the latest on the restoration project, visit our news section as things come closer.Book Now 



Date: 06/10/19 12:55
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: co614

As of 5 minutes ago on their website they are selling excursion tickets  for trips beginning August 1 through the end of November. We all know the definition of insanity. You'd think that they'd have learned by now to NOT advertise/sell tickets until the locomotive is back in steam and has gone through the break-in debugging process which can be lengthy.

   Amazing that they haven't totally blown their credibility with the County and other funders.

   Talk about not learning from past mistakes !!!

   Sad but true.  Ross Rowland



Date: 06/10/19 13:04
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: BKLJ611

ClubCar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LTCerny Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My understanding is that the ex-C&O 2-6-6-2
> #1309
> > trips on the WMSR for July have been postponed
> > until further notice.  Any official
> confirmation?
>
> Where did you get your information?  Are you
> starting a rumor?
> John in White Marsh, Maryland

John, it’s not a rumor. The trips for July have been cancelled and people who purchased tickets were emailed about it by the railroad. Not much work has been completed on the engine since April. Hopefully it runs this fall but I’m not getting my hopes up. Lots of work still left to be done.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 06/10/19 13:14
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: SSgtC

ClubCar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LTCerny Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My understanding is that the ex-C&O 2-6-6-2
> #1309
> > trips on the WMSR for July have been postponed
> > until further notice.  Any official
> confirmation?
>
> Where did you get your information?  Are you
> starting a rumor?
> John in White Marsh, Maryland

There was an article in Trains about it. WMSR has postponed the debut of 1309 indefinitely.

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/06/07-western-maryland-scenic-delays-debut-of-co-2-6-6-2-no-1309

Here's the relevant part of the article:

"Executive Director John Garner says that additional mechanical work is needed, but has not provided a new schedule. The locomotive was to be wheeled in May, but problems with the delivery of parts from a machine shop postponed that work."

Also of note, the tracks are said to need approximately $150,000 worth of repairs, including the replacement of, IIRC, about 1,200 ties.

Posted from Android



Date: 06/10/19 13:16
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: Spoony81




Date: 06/10/19 13:42
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: andersonb109

Anybody who buys a ticket for this is just plan dumb. Until the loco has passed break in runs, tickets should not be sold. Period. Oh wait, weren't tickets sold over a year ago for a photo event? Andin many cases it took numerous e-mails and calls to get one's money back. While this organization no doubt means well and is doing the best they can, they need to hire someone with marketing experience so their credibility isn't further eroded. 



Date: 06/10/19 14:59
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: CPRR

Fool me once.....
Fool me twice....

Now for a third time, possibly in Fall???

What is up with this group? I am not a professional restoration expert (I play one on TO 🤔), but I would never, ever announce any trip behind my locomotive until it has been tested, then tested again , and finally tested a third time.

Like rebuilding a car engine, and immediately go drag racing. Something will break for sure.

And yet the railroad management continues to stumble  over themselves.......

Posted from iPhone



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/19 15:31 by CPRR.



Date: 06/10/19 16:17
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: SP4360

Taking a page out of UP's playbook. Sell tickets and use the excursion for a breakin run.



Date: 06/10/19 16:39
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: HotWater

SP4360 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taking a page out of UP's playbook. Sell tickets
> and use the excursion for a breakin run.

The VERY big difference though, the UP provided virtually unlimited funds for the whole 4014 project, plus they had an actual deadline to meet, i.e. the May 10, 2019 event in Utah. The WMSR has no such funding, nor top management support or even organizational skills.



Date: 06/10/19 17:01
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: co614

Talk about the circular firing squad. Trains magazine carried a news story 3 days ago ( cited in an above post) stating that the debut of the 1309 has been "postponed indefinitely" with no new target date given by the railroad.

   Yet as we speak the company is selling expensive tickets to ride behind the 1309 starting August 1 through Nov. 30. Lord only knows how many unsuspecting folks are ponying up money for a product far from ready to perform. IMHO that's just plain wrong ESPECIALLY with the awful track record of this to date.

   I would hope that Trains magazine ( who have in the past been a big booster) would get on this and stop them from creating any further damage.

   Ross Rowland

  



Date: 06/10/19 17:38
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: mdogg

Not saying that this is right, but maybe the WMSR is thinking that they will sell tickets in advance to raise money to complete the locomotive??



Date: 06/10/19 17:52
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: HotWater

mdogg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not saying that this is right, but maybe the WMSR
> is thinking that they will sell tickets in advance
> to raise money to complete the locomotive??

But then when they don't meet the next "dead line", they will have to send eMails to all those new purchasers, as they just did about a week or so ago, offering to refund their money,,,,,,,,again! I just don't understand why they don't keep the mouths shut.



Date: 06/11/19 06:56
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: grizzledgary

I know to a reasonable person the continuing announcements by WMSR management of ticket sales to ride behind a locomotive they very likely knew would not be completed and ready to operate in time to power said trips seems truly hard to believe. In reality I think it simply indicates how desperate things actually are in terms of funding at WMSR and that any path available to generate income will be taken, period. I'm not suggesting the situation excuses this behavior nor the other questionable decisions made by WMSR management that have been highlighted on this and other forums even before the restoration of #1309 began.

As some have stated, the railroad has lost all credibility with most that have followed this story yet I'm sure nearly everyone of those (including some that had to wait to get refunds...) still look forward to seeing the locomotive operate. With that in mind, can there be any discussion to help the process move forward? Anytime a project I have interest in lacks funding I'm reminded of how easy it was to send $100 to someone I'd never met to help preserve a locomotive I might never see that was located a couple thousand miles away in Texas. I offer that I'm willing to throw more at #1309 if I could be confident the final result would be witnessing it return to service. Are there enough others that feel the same way?

In this case we have a locomotive that already has a large following, is located on an active railroad and has had a considerable portion of the required work completed. Could we organize donations to a fund that would be managed by a knowledgeable and trustworthy individual from within the steam restoration field to help shepard this one across the finish line? Would / could WMSR "play nice" with such a proposal, are there insurmountable administrative / legal issues or is the whole project too toxic to generate the required support from outside of the WMSR organization? I know, many unanswered questions.

Personally I was / am more excited about #1309 than the UP #4014 restoration as in terms of venue, expected frequency of operation and yes, ticket prices this locomotive would probably be much more accessible on a regular basis to a far greater number of people. It isn't my intent to suggest I have in any way presented "a plan" here but instead just hope to encourage thought about any alternatives to what we have witnessed thus far which in regards to #1309's future I fear may not end well.               



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/19 10:18 by grizzledgary.



Date: 06/11/19 10:42
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: co614

Always best to try to look at becoming part of the solution vs. part of the problem. The challenge in what you propose is to get the current " management" of the WMSR to agree to an iron clad trust account into which the donations would go ( 100% of them) into that account and ONLY be spent on things DIRECTLY related to restoring the 1309 to service. The current boss ( John Garner) would NOT have signatory power on that account which would be administered by an independent selected professional steam restoration person who comes to the table with a proven track record.

   If you can get Mr. Garner to agree to this I think there could be a chance to generate some funding??? 

   To ask folks to keep shoveling funds down the same rat hole won't work. 

    IMHO-Ross Rowland



Date: 06/11/19 11:42
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: CaliforniaSteam

Lots of negative posts about the WMSR on this thread, my gosh I thought we would all be more positive even when in the midst of problems. I guess some groups are fair game and others are untouchable.

CS



Date: 06/11/19 12:44
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: mdogg

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mdogg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not saying that this is right, but maybe the
> WMSR
> > is thinking that they will sell tickets in
> advance
> > to raise money to complete the locomotive??
>
> But then when they don't meet the next "dead
> line", they will have to send eMails to all those
> new purchasers, as they just did about a week or
> so ago, offering to refund their
> money,,,,,,,,again! I just don't understand why
> they don't keep the mouths shut.

I agree, but I believe the reason they "don't keep their mouths shut" could be a desperate need for funding. I hope they can complete it and someday get a return on their investment!

Posted from Android



Date: 06/11/19 13:53
Re: 1309 July trips cancelled?
Author: warren1977

CaliforniaSteam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of negative posts about the WMSR on this
> thread, my gosh I thought we would all be more
> positive even when in the midst of problems. I
> guess some groups are fair game and others are
> untouchable.
>
> CS
You may not be aware given you are a left-coaster that the WMSR has been sucking down public funds all through the project. If you read the newspaper that is linked, you'll find that WMSR is in the process of shaking down 90K from 3 local governments, all 3 of which are dealing with all the problems of being in rural Appalachia.
I do get the slight flavor of sarcasm in your post, but this isn't 4014.



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