Steam & Excursion > It's Official: Feds say 416 fire was started by the D&S

Today the U.S. Forest Service officially named the D&S as the cause of last year's 416 fire and sued the railroad to recover $25 million in fire-fighting costs. This is considerably less that the $40 million in costs that have been previously estimated. 

Durango Herald:

https://durangoherald.com/articles/283967-federal-government-sues-durango-train-for-starting-416-fire?utm_campaign=dailyheadlines&utm_content=federal-government-sues-durango-train-for-starting-416-fire&utm_medium=email&utm_source=daily-headlines-email&utm_source=Full+List&utm_campaign=ac3d2227d1-breaking-news-2019-07-02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_9d724e6613-ac3d2227d1-28562027

Larry Gross



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/19 14:09 by LJGross.

Here is a better link: <phorum break> <phorum break> [url=https://durangoherald.com/articles/283967-federal-government-sues-durango-train-for-starting-416-fire]https://durangoherald.com/articles/283967-federal-government-sues-durango-train-for-starting-416-fire

Martin[/url]

Get your pictures while you can

LJGross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Today the U.S. Forest Service officially named the
> D&S as the cause of last year's 416 fire and sued
> the railroad to recover $25 million in
> fire-fighting costs. This is considerably less
> that the $40 million in costs that have been
> previously estimated. 
>
> Durango Herald:
> https://twotrackmindphoto.smugmug.com/Trains/July-
> 2019/i-JVF7nPL/A
>
> Larry Gross

Ouch - damn ouch! Can the D&S afford 25 million? Are they insured? I still maintain that you or I could have had a campfire in the vicinity of the tracks, even knowing if we were careless, so what, the railroad would be blamed. Or how about those in town who would rather see the nasty, stinky railroad go away, gee how to shut it down? I still think even that determination by the USFS is hard to really prove. === === = === JLH

LoggerHogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a better link:
>
> https://durangoherald.com/articles/283967-federal-
> government-sues-durango-train-for-starting-416-fir
> e
>
> Martin

Thanks Martin, link has been corrected in the original note.

LJG

How can they prove without a doubt that the fire was started by the railroad?

Also found it interesting that local businesses are joining the suit claiming lost sales, sales which the train most likely created.
“More than 26 affected parties are listed in the lawsuit, with most of those damages a result of floods from the burn area, though a few people are seeking compensation for fire damage to their property. Also, a handful of businesses joined the litigation, arguing they lost sales during the 416 Fire.”

If the DSNG goes under I hope the town suffers and other local business collapse as well, take the whole town down to be honest. The railroad has been there before anyone else.

Because it did, eyewitness reports with,  Al Chione said so* USFS allowing fuels to build up D&S maybe able to get their liability down to 5 mill perhaps , guessing here.

*interesting a guy who sold slides from that rr hung them out to dry, with opinionated pieces, had a chance to save the day, but could not ultimately, no it wasn't his responsibility.

Colo is just big  dry tenderbox waiting to go up, many fires today even.   Even w/out the rr. it would have happened eventually, just physics.  The rr didn't create the pine beetle.

why do you think they started the oil burner program immediately



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/19 15:43 by dan.

Joint Authority said:
>
> If the DSNG goes under I hope the town suffers and
> other local business collapse as well, take the
> whole town down to be honest. 

I continue to be amazed at how folks just spew out things like this on T.O. and somehow think they are adding anything of value to the conversation. 

Larry Gross

LJGross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Joint Authority said:
> >
> > If the DSNG goes under I hope the town suffers
> and
> > other local business collapse as well, take the
> > whole town down to be honest. 
>
> I continue to be amazed at how folks just spew out
> things like this on T.O. and somehow think they
> are adding anything of value to the
> conversation. 
>
> Larry Gross

Larry,

I think most posters here are very "passionate". Sometimes that passion can cause posts which seem extreme. However, there is some grains of truth here... if the D&SNG RR does go under, there is the real danger 'Harpers other properties could be at risk as well. This could cause a domino effect, financially to other properties. Additionally, there will be the economic impact to both towns involved with the railroad. Honestly, as I said earlier, its probably best to get your pictures now...

Regards,

Dave

jointauthority Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the DSNG goes under I hope the town suffers and
> other local business collapse as well, take the
> whole town down to be honest. The railroad has
> been there before anyone else.

Just because this peaked my interest, I developed a scenario that would show the town just how much they actually need the railroad. So the railroad goes to court and they lose. In response, the railroad ceases operations and lays off all non-essential employees. They don't shut down as a company, they just stop operating, citing the cost of the lawsuit as the reason. This goes on for a full year (or season, I'm not picky). And after that year, they resume operations. I have a feeling that the townsfolk will be begging the railroad to restart operations just to keep themselves afloat before that time period is over. Now will this happen, probably not. But even if the railroad shuts down or is forced to reduce the number of trains and raise rates, the effect will be felt all across the region.

the town, While having D&S as the original anchor, has diversified to the point where it will be fine with out it, just will have lost it's heart and soul.   Many people, mostly new arrivals don't like trains.

If the railroad goes down from this suit many will be shocked at the loss of business in Durango and Silverton.  Bet your boots.  Heck just look  at the number of motels, and trailer parks. Check out the motel rates in Durango, not cheap by any standard.  Just think of the millions of dollars visitors pay the D&S. 

As for new people moving in who don't like the railroad, there is lots of places in Colorado where nary a whistle is heard.  They need to  look before they buy.

there is another suit starting in sep, by others against the RR

durangos values for ever thing is inflated

would just give them some downward pressure

the RR will be there the state would not let it go away, or the city of durango, even the USFS likes the RR, but they are bound to do their job.

Like  ross says Al is a good community man,  has stated he  will make it right, once started Mr. Day says that USFS wanted to protect, structures but also let nature take its course, natural forest management.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/19 10:51 by dan.

May I suggest we all take a deep breath and allow the railroad to issue its position. Owner Al Harper is a serious, responsible citizen and has done one heck of a good job growing this business into one of the top 5 tourist railroads in the land. He has also proven on numerous occassions to care about his community and I'll wager that his response will be reasoned and sound.

   The D&S is a strong operation and I'm confident that they will not only survive this tragedy but come out all the stronger as the result of it.

   Ross Rowland

jointauthority Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
 > The railroad has been there before anyone else.

This is simply not true.  Native Americans (Ute Tribe) lived in the Durango area long before the railroad came along.
 

"American Greed" lives.  No one wants to assume responsibility for anything anymore.   Suing everyone in sight is the new American Lottery.  Its so sad.

Mark Cuban commented (on shark tank) that he was a magnet for every lawsuit that came anywhere hear him, for any reason. (why he had to avoid deals where there might be any liability issue at all).  People are so encouraged to sue, with the mentality that anything the get is free money.     We can do our best to mitigate diseaters, but they are going to happen.  Ppl need to stop crying, like they never thought natural diseasters were possible, and stop jumping on the sue for free money bandwagon, IMHO.

PG&E, out here in Calif,  cannot possibly keep wires from breaking in high wind conditions.  So they are threatening to just shut off power to ppl when high winds are present.  We'll see how everyone likes that.

Smoky the Bear has irrefutable video evidence on his Smoky smartphone implicating D&S. Does a bear vid in the woods?

The railroad is not going away or out of business.  It is a profitable asset that will continue to bring in money.  I suppose it could go bankrupt, be sold at sale, and the new owner will make sure they are not responsible for a fire again.   It might mean running oil burners, and diesels, but the railroad will go on as it makes money.  I think of the Titanic, if you know there are icebergs floating about, it may not be a good idea to run full steam ahead.  If you know there is a high fire risk after drought it may not be a good idea to run ember emitting coal burning steam locomotives through the forest.  Because you don't agree with forest management is not an excuse to point fingers at someone else if your enterprise starts a fire.  
 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

I can't wait for this to happen and watch the people scream about no power. 

pdt Wrote:
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> PG&E, out here in Calif,  cannot possibly keep
> wires from breaking in high wind conditions.  So
> they are threatening to just shut off power to ppl
> when high winds are present.  We'll see how
> everyone likes that.

They already turned it off a few weeks ago.

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