Steam & Excursion > Work Halts Again on C&O No. 1309

On Trains Newswire:

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2019/08/24-western-maryland-1309-project-halts-again-for-need-of-funding

>>>>“But thanks to Diversified Rail Services and John Garner, the locomotive is very close to completion. In fact, had it not been for the bronze theft consuming available financial resources, it would have been running 4-5 months ago.”<<<<

This keeps coming back to bight them.   The new brass will cost $39,000.  Yet the old brass was valued at scrap value. 

They also install an environmentally secure coal storage and ash removal system to meet WV requirements. $80,000
 

If it weren't for bad luck, they'd have no luck at all.  Looking back on this whole thing, I'm still very curious as to who talked the Western Maryland Scenic R.R. into getting the 1309?  Yes, I realize that the crook who stole the brass parts has really set them back and cost them dearly for replacements, but it is obvious to me that when this C&O locomotive was retired and especially all the years it sat unprotected in the B&O R.R. Museum collecting rust, that rain/snow water plus the damp moister from weather changes really caused much damage to this locomotive.  Honestly, I cannot help but wonder why the WM Scenic did not look into some other steam engine to restore?  Would the former C&O 4-8-4 #614 have been a better solution by either trying to lease it from Ross Roland or to have purchased it?  Surely this would have been a much better solution.
All I can say is I wish them good luck going forward as I still say once it is in operation, thousands of folks will come to both ride behind it and to photograph it.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

ClubCar Wrote:
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> If it weren't for bad luck, they'd have no luck at
> all.  Looking back on this whole thing, I'm still
> very curious as to who talked the Western Maryland
> Scenic R.R. into getting the 1309?  Yes, I
> realize that the crook who stole the brass parts
> has really set them back and cost them dearly for
> replacements, but it is obvious to me that when
> this C&O locomotive was retired and especially all
> the years it sat unprotected in the B&O R.R.
> Museum collecting rust, that rain/snow water plus
> the damp moister from weather changes really
> caused much damage to this locomotive.  Honestly,
> I cannot help but wonder why the WM Scenic did not
> look into some other steam engine to restore? 
> Would the former C&O 4-8-4 #614 have been a better
> solution by either trying to lease it from Ross
> Roland or to have purchased it?  Surely this
> would have been a much better solution.

First, the 614 is NOT a "drag freight" engine. Second, I doubt it would fit on the turntable, not mention the transition from the steep up to the table then becoming perfectly flat.

> All I can say is I wish them good luck going
> forward as I still say once it is in operation,
> thousands of folks will come to both ride behind
> it and to photograph it.
> John in White Marsh, Maryland

614 Would be like driving a carpet tack with a sledgehammer.  Maybe the 3985 will become available.  Too bad the Virginian scrapped their 2-10-10-2s decades ago.  What exactly needs to be done to satisfy WV with the coal storage?  What the hell is next?  Geez

Chill out people, It's almost a finished locomotive. And I'm sure this rebuild can be finished eventaully. #1309 seemed to be a nice fit for the WMSR and the American Railroading History. And besides it's home to #1309 restoration.

Did they ever catch the ass hole who stole the parts? (apologies if already discussed here). If so he should be made to pay for the parts and assuming has no funds, locked up for good. 

andersonb109 Wrote:
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> Did they ever catch the ass hole who stole the
> parts? (apologies if already discussed here).

Yes they did, according to published reports. However, those in charge, apparently never did a damned thing, nor did the local law enforcement go after the scrap yard.

If
> so he should be made to pay for the parts and
> assuming has no funds, locked up for good. 

Why "pay for the parts"? In my opinion, the bigger question was/is, why was the scrap yard allowed to scrap the parts? Thus, why isn't the scrap yard owner/manager also held accountable?

Guys....I have been asking this questions or two years.   WHAT the hell ever happened to that thief?  Has he gone to jail?  For how long?   Does he have any clue what financial and TIME damage he has done to all of us?   How can we get money out of him for his selfish theivery.  (Martin?).  

Keystone1 Wrote:
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> Guys....I have been asking this questions or two
> years.   WHAT the hell ever happened to that
> thief?  Has he gone to jail?  For how long?  
> Does he have any clue what financial and TIME
> damage he has done to all of us?   How can we get
> money out of him for his selfish theivery.
>  (Martin?).  

When a lowlife thief cut the cables on ex-Amtrak 231 (and was caught red handed when he came back for more) causing thousands of dollars of damage, it was explained to us that while yes we could easily file a civil suit against him for restitution and easily get a judgment, all he would have to do is declare bankruptcy and all that effort would have been for nothing. (He was charged criminally and did time, although I do not remember how much.) "You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip."

Remember, the lawyers and our court system are designed to protect the rights of the accused first and foremost. Hence, most victims never get the restitution they deserve.

Well......that is simply not fair.     Don’t tell anyone....but crime DOES pay!

Still closer than a certian K4....

Fritz in MD

Another speed bump on the road to restoration. Also, a good text book lesson for others seriously contemplating the restoration of a mainline steam locomotive. When this engine enters service well over $ 3 M will have been invested not including the costs of the break in runs and fixing the bugs those runs will uncover.

   Any engine that has sat outdoors for decades will cost in this magnitude ( or more) depending on specific conditions of the unique machine.

   If you want to do a restoration of this magnitude on the basis of a fulltime shop working 40 hour weeks with a 12 man gang then you can add another $ 1M but you'll have a locomotive ready to enter reliable service in 15-18 months. 

   Moral of the story is to have the money in the bank BEFORE you start the work, and hire a contractor with a PROVEN track record and then stay COMPLETELY out of the way.

    Ross Rowland

Better yet, have a full time, talented, knowledgable work force on staff so that you don't have to invest in high-end contractors, thereby saving lots of $$$ in labor.

It would be interesting to see how much this whole thing would have cost if they had regular employees to do the job.

Earlk Wrote:
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> Better yet, have a full time, talented,
> knowledgable work force on staff so that you don't
> have to invest in high-end contractors, thereby
> saving lots of $$$ in labor.

How many people would you need to perform routine maintenance and running repairs vs. how many for the occasional complete overhaul?

Railfans like you keep saying anything bad about and giving WMSR a bad name.

CPR_4000 Wrote:
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> Earlk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Better yet, have a full time, talented,
> > knowledgable work force on staff so that you
> don't
> > have to invest in high-end contractors, thereby
> > saving lots of $$$ in labor.
>
> How many people would you need to perform routine
> maintenance and running repairs vs. how many for
> the occasional complete overhaul?

I don't know the exact amount but there are dedicated full-time employees in the USA that perform rebuilds and regular maintenance on a daily basis.  Examples are Strasburg, Cumbres and Toltec (Chama, NM and Antonito, CO), Durango and Silverton (Durango, CO).  In my estimate these places keep the torch burning for how to run steam operations.  There are probably one or two more that I may have missed but these guys run multiple trains, and engines during the season, and some during the whole year.  So if you need a steam fix, there is no better place than the Steam In Colorado.  2-8-2's pounding upgrade will get you excited, or you don't have a pulse!!!
Greg Scholl
http://www.gregschollvideo.com

MiketheMikado Wrote:
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> Railfans like you keep saying anything bad about
> and giving WMSR a bad name.

WMSR kind of did that to themselves with unrealistic deadlines and such.

Posted from iPhone

Guess it won’t be done by Christmas.....

Posted from iPhone

gregscholl Wrote:
> I don't know the exact amount but there are
> dedicated full-time employees in the USA that
> perform rebuilds and regular maintenance on a
> daily basis.  Examples are Strasburg, Cumbres and
> Toltec (Chama, NM and Antonito, CO), Durango and
> Silverton (Durango, CO).  In my estimate these
> places keep the torch burning for how to run steam
> operations.  There are probably one or two more
> that I may have missed but these guys run multiple
> trains, and engines during the season, and some
> during the whole year.  So if you need a steam
> fix, there is no better place than the Steam In
> Colorado.  2-8-2's pounding upgrade will get you
> excited, or you don't have a pulse!!!
> Greg Scholl
> http://www.gregschollvideo.com

Headed to Antonito and Durango in less than a month. Try and make the 1,000 mile trek from Missouri at least twice a year ...

Regards,
Burlington John