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Steam & Excursion > Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH


Date: 10/07/19 12:15
Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: Wasatch-RR-Cont

It had been my goal to post the story about the accident in Utah.  Needless to say, I was beat out, which is fine.   However, I did want to make an observation about the chasing and most of all, an observation about the Newcomers vs. the Old Heads.  

Once upon a time, in the old days, when the only way to get a steam schedule was from Trains Magazine or a chat at the local hobby store, there were....."rules" about chasing trains.  Simple rules like, use your hazard lights, stay in the right lane, pass when it is safe, consider others, stake out your location and move on.  There were and are more rules, suffice to say, we had "rules".

Today, we have a million new up and coming railfans who get everything from Facebook.   There are no rules.  There is no consideration of others.  There are no standards.  Just...NASCAR driving and chasing.  

I have watched Big Boy 4014 from the very first day right up to last week.  We...the Old Heads of the sport need to help the next generation better understand that Safety if the Priority and that we need to treat each other better.  This is not NASCAR and we can and should do it safely and with-in the bounds of the law.   May I suggest that we all do our part to make sure that this is the last accident and that we do our part to help the newcomers do this safely.  I just think we all need to be the best we can be and to help prevent any further mishaps. 

Kindly,

Your friends at Wasatch RR Cont.



Date: 10/07/19 12:37
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: MaryMcPherson

Back in June when we were shooting Iowa Interstate 6988, some young fans were overheard comparing notes.  Speeds mentioned went from 90 to 100mph going between locations.  One hopes they live long enough to get over that sort of insanity.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions



Date: 10/07/19 13:01
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: dan

4014 rarely gets above 45, ed wants to be able to stop short of any non-thinking  fan holding up an ipad or similar device on the tracks, so the accident in colo isn't repeated i imagine, suprised he didn't stop to scold the fan who left his tripod on the tracks as pictured elsewhere, chasing numbers out of Chian decreased a lot  now that it has made a few runs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/19 15:57 by dan.



Date: 10/07/19 13:17
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: UP951West

I'm done with chasing steam movements after the unsafe driving I saw this past summer by too many drivers CHASING  UP 4014 eastbound in Nebraska . From now on , one good spot , and that'll do. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/19 13:20 by UP951West.



Date: 10/07/19 14:47
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: MC6853

Yeah, because the older folks are all saints behind the wheel and cause no problems of their own; let's blame the damn millennials again... Gimme a break...



Date: 10/07/19 15:38
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: WW

I've seen enough stupid behavior (and not just driving) by railfans during my time both as a railfan and time working in the railroad industry to last a lifetime.  And, yes, such misbehavior has become more common and more egregious in the last 20 years or so.  I seldom train chase per se at all these days.  I may photograph a train from one location from time to time, but chasing has simply become to stressful and too hazardous due to the idiots out there.  I also happen to believe that such antics do play a part in the growing reluctance by the larger railroads to have much to do with special trips.  After the 150th hoopla dies down,  I suspect that appearances by UP steam will become pretty few and far between. 



Date: 10/07/19 15:59
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: Wasatch-RR-Cont

To be clear, I did not blame the millennials. I blamed the new and up and coming untrained railfan! You assumed I said millennial. I didn’t. I’ve see plenty of old people be stupid too and in most cases, they don’t know they are being stupid. This is what we need to help; those who can’t help themselves.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 10/07/19 16:13
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: MC6853

It was implied when you said "up and coming railfans"... And while I'm at it, let's pick that apart further, since a strong majority of folks shooting, pacing, or even chasing would not put themselves in that category... They're there because they heard about the steam train, and care no further than that... WE know the rules (stay in the photo line, don't walk in others' shots, don't talk in case someone's shooting video, stay off the track, stay out of the gauge, don't stand too close, etcetera), but do they? Do they know it's not acceptable to pace a 45-mph train on a 70-mph expressway for dozens of miles, snarling up traffic in a dangerous manner? Do they know parking completely out of the lane on the side of the road is the wisest option? Do they know it's courteous to stay in line with others and not ruin their shots by stepping way closer at the last second? Do you think that person that 844 struck and killed last year fully understood the implications of standing too close, and the consequences of said error? Do you think she knows that now looking down from above?

Your biggest danger isn't the "experienced" fans who do 80 from shot to shot; I grant you that is a problem but not the biggest one... The big trouble is people who know nothing about the hobby and the possible dangers and take no consideration for their own safety and that of others... There are exceptions, as I'm sure others will point out, but for at least 95% of cases, the "foamers" know what they're doing, the general public does not... And good luck educating them on a topic they only slightly give a crud about...

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/19 17:46 by MC6853.



Date: 10/07/19 16:14
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: nycman

And you were right on, Wasatch RR Cont.  I remember the old days and folks were much more careful and considerate of other drivers.  Then once in a while we saw the 70 MPH SUV with roof open and stand up fan with a video cam.  Good thing there were no low bridges.



Date: 10/07/19 16:49
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: wingomann

nycman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  Then
> once in a while we saw the 70 MPH SUV with roof
> open and stand up fan with a video cam.  

This is nothing new.  I was riding behind the 3985 on the Pacific Limited in 1992 and we saw a guy doing that exact thing except it was a car instead of a SUV.  It was on the edge of Tracy, CA. 
Considering it was 1992 you definately can't blame the millenials since they weren't born yet.

I think the only difference between the train chasers today vs the past is that social media is keeping people more informed as to where the loco/train will be.  This is causing a much higher concentration of people at all the preferred photo locations and longer lines of cars pacing.  I do think people are dumber today about filming due to everyone trying to get perfect shots with their smartphones.  Back in the day if you didn't have a good camera with a good long lens you just stood back and enjoyed the show.  



Date: 10/07/19 17:08
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: Wasatch-RR-Cont

There was no implication other than “new and up and coming railfans”. There has been an assumption made, which is the readers right. I implied what I meant. The Facebook generation (which my mother is part of at age 70) is the group of new and up and coming railfans. Too many of this group, regardless of age, are guilty of the dangers we are facing. Young or old, if you chase or railfan like a JA, it hurts all of us. If I’ve offended anybody, maybe a look in the mirror may reveal that you could be part of the problem. Unless we take time to ask the question, we can never understand the answer.

The accident is yet another time for us to reflect and improve. May we all take a moment to reflect?

Kindly,

- John E. Rimmasch

Mistakes and all from my....

Posted from iPhone



Date: 10/07/19 17:21
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: Frisco1522

I stopped chasing long ago, probably in the late 70s.  It was a pain in the ass then and I can't imagine what it is like now.
Sitting in the cab of 1522 I saw things that would turn your hair white.  I'm amazed there were no accidents or injuries.   I remember chasing SR 4501 from St Louis to Centralia on the two lane highway and saw 4 cars abreast at 70 mph.  I shudder to think if some farmer would have pulled out on his tractor or combine.  Life is short enough without wasting it acting like a jackass behind the wheel.



Date: 10/07/19 18:07
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: dal3294

I did part of the double header going west and returning east in May, if you had a plan and knew where you were going for the next shot and took traffic into consideration you did just fine. The biggest issue was the pacers who think that driving with one hand while filming and doing 25 below the speed limit is acceptable all for that wobbly youtube video. If people wouldnt pace the roads would be wide open for anyone to get ahead and get the shot. 

RN



Date: 10/08/19 08:26
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: Bob3985

Reminds me of some year ago with the chasers in eastern Nebraska chasing 844 returning from Omaha on the two lane. One of the chaser (racers) tried to pass a string of cars and ended up head on into an eastbound vehicle killing the occupants. 
As was noted earlier, pick a couple of great photo locations far enough apart to have the time to reach them safely.
Long ago I gave up on trying to get lots of photos that really are not all that great opting for a couple of ones you can proudly print and hang on the wall.

Railfan safely please

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/19 11:52 by Bob3985.



Date: 10/08/19 09:47
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: jst3751

This is not a problem of newcomers to railfanning.

This is a problem with society in generally and the ME ME ME attitude, I am more important than you get out of my way.



Date: 10/08/19 12:13
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: cchan006

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is not a problem of newcomers to
> railfanning.
>
> This is a problem with society in generally and
> the ME ME ME attitude, I am more important than
> you get out of my way.

Some truckers on I-80 saw what was happening between Evanston and Ogden, and put the flashers on to bring awareness to safety when 4014 was near them. So some people do pay attention to more than themselves.

One trucker I talked to at the rest stop went there, just so he can safely enjoy the 4014.

It's funny in this "Information Age" of social media that some people refused to use their brains to prepare the chase. We get information far better than paper maps today, so they should be doing better than this luddite (me) in chasing trains? 

I realize that there are some people who are truly information-savvy. I met quite a few people like myself who had a relaxed, enjoyable chase in Utah about a week ago.



Date: 10/08/19 13:16
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: LIL_BUDDY

Pick one spot in the morning before the service stop and one after the service stop. Anything else is a bonus.Scout the route in advance for what you feel are the "best" spots for the first half and second. Any slow orders or unplanned stops may give you a chance for some extra locations. Quality over quantity.

Posted from Android



Date: 10/09/19 23:28
Re: Chasing the 4014 Newcomers vs Old Heads WASATCH
Author: Check_A1E_Perf

LIL_BUDDY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pick one spot in the morning before the service
> stop and one after the service stop. Anything else
> is a bonus.Scout the route in advance for what you
> feel are the "best" spots for the first half and
> second. Any slow orders or unplanned stops may
> give you a chance for some extra locations.
> Quality over quantity.
>
> Posted from Android

Exactly. Modena was perfect. Light behind us, excellent scenery, service stop and good roads all around with open gates. Google Earth is a great way to scout of potential spots and how to get to them safely without tresapassing. A slight grade into and out of town even gave just a little stack talk, unlike most of the videos I've seen with her drifting.



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