Steam & Excursion > This Situation Will Take Some Heavy Lifting To Clean It Up!

There is not much information recorded on this particular wreck that involved Southern Pacific Cab-Forward #4121 other than what is in the photos.  However, from what we see, the big 1929 Baldwin Built AC-5 Class engine will most certainly need the assistance of the steam wrecking crane that has arrived to help put things right.

Notice in the last photo the use of timbers and oak wedges that is always a necessary part in re-railing any steam locomotive.  Ths maintenance -f way crew had their work cut out for them on this day.

Martin



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/19 02:59 by LoggerHogger.

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Probably not Maintenance of Way crews...they’re the track-work guys.
Probably the Master Mechanic/Wreck Master and his Car Deoartment crews manning the Derrick and doing the blocking and rigging.  The Wreck Master’s greatest fear is getting the Derrick derailed... results in instantly getting fired from his job, for the Weeck Master.

But, there’s so much to be done, the track guys are always ready to pitch-in.   
If this mishap is blocking a main track, the entire focus is to quickly get the beast out of the way and restoring the track to let the traffic flow ...with minimum delays..

That’s an extremely heavy and an awkward locomotive to have to wrestle with.

​W.

 

The crane and many of the crew sent here are from SP's maintenance of way department.  The restoration of the track was their resonsability along with the crane operation needed to put things right.

Martin

Need some clarification from an Espee veteran. On my home road, the Louisville and Nashville, the Carmen from the car shops operated the wrecker and rigging. Track department placed the track panels and removed damaged track and the operating department such as T&E handled the train and spotting the wrecker under the direction of the wrecker foreman.Been there several times.

Steve Panzik
Chiloquin, Or

357 shows as a daily mixed between Yuma and Indio in a 1939 employee timetable.

The odd thing here is that I cannot see a single wheel that is off the rail.
Looks like the track collapsed on the fireman’s side.

Steve is correct, on the SP the wrecker was crewed by the Car Dept. and the Roundhouse forces.

The 'Wreckmaster' was a senior Car Foreman, picked for both his ability and the willingness to be out for long hours and days.
Back in the day, on the LA Divn, it was Wes Baggs, and when he retired, Tony Caruso got the job.  The Carmen did most of the rigging on derailed cars, while the Machinists did the rigging on derailed locomotives.  Neither stood around watching the other work.
G
 

Last time I saw the Santa Fe wrecker used they were changing a locked up traction motor and it was supervised
by the division superintendent, must have been a slow day at the office.

Out

callum_out Wrote:
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> Last time I saw the Santa Fe wrecker used they
> were changing a locked up traction motor and it
> was supervised
> by the division superintendent, must have been a
> slow day at the office.
>
> Out

Or it was on a HOT train!

ExSPCondr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Steve is correct, on the SP the wrecker was crewed
> by the Car Dept. and the Roundhouse forces.
>
> The 'Wreckmaster' was a senior Car Foreman, picked
> for both his ability and the willingness to be out
> for long hours and days.
> Back in the day, on the LA Divn, it was Wes Baggs,
> and when he retired, Tony Caruso got the job. 
> The Carmen did most of the rigging on derailed
> cars, while the Machinists did the rigging on
> derailed locomotives.  Neither stood around
> watching the other work.
> G

George, Mr. Baggs, as he was known to all and sundry was not someone to mess with.  If some juniour officer was feeling his authority, and became a nuisance to Mr. Baggs, the work would come to a stop!

Brian Black
Castle Rock, CO.
>  

> 357 shows as a daily mixed between Yuma and Indio
> in a 1939 employee timetable.

Yuma to Araz Jct (then SD&AE?) in the 6/39.

The track crew had to stay close to the scene so they could extend the track every time the crane picked up another car or loco and needed to move ahead.
Many times the lift was to set the car/loco off to the side so track could be pushed through and traffic restored, then the following day(s) they would pick up the cast aside cars and set them up on their trucks or onto a flat car.
While all this was going on the Loss and Damage Prevention crews (known as the broken bottle department) would remove freight from inoperable cars to be transloaded into trucks or other cars.
If hazmat was involved another crew would be there to transload or clean up.
Almost always the signal and communications departments had to temporarily re-route their pole lines around the site and repair any wayside signals, signal houses, or power switches.
It was always a show!
 

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > 357 shows as a daily mixed between Yuma and
> Indio
> > in a 1939 employee timetable.
>
> Yuma to Araz Jct (then SD&AE?) in the 6/39.

Using that June 1939 timetable, 357 started out of Yuma as an unnamed 2nd Class Mixed train; 
obtained 1st Class status when it dropped the 'Mixed' description while assuming its new name--Imperial
upon crossing the border at Calexico and then continued onward to Los Angeles via Niland and Indio.

The crew was SP all the way, using subsidiary Inter-California Railway between Araz Jct.; entering Mexico
at Algodones (2.7 miles west of Araz Jct), and re-entering the U.S. at Calexico, 51.9 miles beyond Algodones.

An article in the September 1948 issue of Trains magazine regarding San Diego & Arizona Eastern (SD&AE)
passenger operations mentions that the crews of those trains that operated between San Diego and Yuma
changed at El Centro with SP crews handling the chores to and from Yuma. 

SD&AE tracks stopped at El Centro and reached Calexico by trackage rights over the SP which ceased after 1956. 


 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/19 20:30 by cewherry.

I'm just wondering.  Where would the big hook actually hook a locomotive like this, to pick it up ?  From the coupler,  or maybe the pilot beam ?  I imagine they could do even more damage to the loco. if not done right.  Oak wedges don't sound like fun, if you have to beat them in by hand.  I'll bet there were a bunch of sore backs for a long time afterwards.  Ya think there might have been a little cussing invoved, before the loco.made it out of there ?

Craig Hanson
Vay, Idaho

Do you think they would use a cab-ahead on a mixed/secondary passenger train out in the desert?

What other trains used the neumber "357"?

hawkinsun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm just wondering.  Where would the big hook
> actually hook a locomotive like this, to pick it
> up ?  From the coupler,  or maybe the pilot beam
> ?  I imagine they could do even more damage to
> the loco. if not done right.  Oak wedges don't
> sound like fun, if you have to beat them in by
> hand.  I'll bet there were a bunch of sore backs
> for a long time afterwards.  Ya think there might
> have been a little cussing invoved, before the
> loco.made it out of there ?
>

Though I've seen it done, a coupler is not strong enough to reliably lift that much weight.

The cranes hooks are seldom used to lift directly, but rather used to lift chains with hooks, slings or cables wrapped under the boiler or frame, or (I forgot the exact term) a sort of bridle which the crane picks up by the middle and has cables or chains attached at its ends.

Yes, it was fascinating to watch.

-LD

Earlk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you think they would use a cab-ahead on a
> mixed/secondary passenger train out in the
> desert?

SP's cab-forward's were definitely used on any and all of the "Haulers" originating out of California's Imperial Valley.

EDIT: Using SP's Los Angeles Division employee timetable of June 11, 1939;  AC4 & 5 class locomotives were rated
          for 12,000 M's (6,000 tons using SP's peculiar formula) between "Niland and Araz Jct. via Inter-California Railway Line".
This figure was shown only in SP employee timetables since the T&E operating crews on the Inter-Cal were SP employees. 
>
> What other trains used the neumber "357"?

Good question. Take a look at Ed Gibson's http://wx4.org/to/foam/maps/and_timetables4.html website for more. 

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/19 08:19 by cewherry.

West bound wrote:The odd thing here is that I cannot see a single wheel that is off the rail.
Looks like the track collapsed on the fireman’s side.

It looks to me like the middle photo was taken after the job was done, with #1 and #3 before the job started.    Which means that the photographer was one of the crew involved in the job, because  1) he had no time to take photos while working and 2) he would not have gotten that close while the work was actually going on.

 

elueck Wrote:

>
> It looks to me like the middle photo was taken
> after the job was done, with #1 and #3 before the
> job started.  

The job is definately not done in shot #2.  You can see that the lead pilot truck is still off the rail and the rear engine is also off the rail as we see in the 3rd photo.  I am sure these were all taken before the job was done.   I also have a few more from this same sequence.

Martin

> hawkinsun Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> > ?  I imagine they could do even more damage to
> > the loco. if not done right.  Oak wedges don't
> > sound like fun, if you have to beat them in by
> > hand.

Track jacks, such as shown below, are invaluable rerailing tools.  Shown below, a wooden or steel pole is inserted into the socket at the right and pumped up and down,  You can raise the jack 1 1/2 inches for each full stroke of the handle.  A shorter stroke raises it 1/2" or 1".

I've often said, "Nothing in railroading is like anything else."  This applies to the use of jacks, too.  Jacks can not only be used to lift an object but also to move it sideways!  But, not as you might expect.

If the jack is inserted at an angle between the load and blocking on the ground, as shown, when the jack is raised the jack will, surprisingly, not fall to the left, but rather will try to right itself, moving the load to the right until the jack is vertical!  Then if you lower the jack you have successfully moved to load a few inches to the right.

-LD

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