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Steam & Excursion > Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361


Date: 11/27/19 10:56
Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: ClubCar

I know, the minute I bring this up here there will be all kinds of complaints and bashing's.  However, several of us are wondering what if anything is happening now with this locomotive?
Supposedly both Bennett Levin and Wick Moreman were getting involved in seeing that this engine is restored.  I have not read nor heard anything positive anywhere.  Is this latest movement another "pie in the sky" dream or is something positive happening?  Thank you for any information and Happy Thanksgiving to you.
John in White Marsh, Maryland



Date: 11/27/19 13:41
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: exopr

Below is what I gleaned from Wikipedia, also see http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/staff/archive/2019/10/15/pennsylvania-tour-prr-1361.aspx

In May 2018, 1361 has another chance to see the high iron again as Bennett Levin and Wick Moorman started to set up a private fund to restore her. The locomotive will have PRR style Timken roller bearings built from designs from the 1940s. It is said that there are several ex-PRR P70 and B60 cars to be used for the train.[11] The engine is currently being worked on by a dedicated team of 4 people. Restoration cost is estimated at $750,000. The locomotive requires boiler patches, firebox patches, and a new crown sheet. Then, reassembly can take place. New parts for the 1361 have been fabricated and are ready for installation. As of February 2019 the group was designing a new boiler that would meet current FRA and mechanical engineering standards.[12] In October 2019 the engine's tender neared complete restoration. Trucks were upgraded to roller bearings and its water scoop restored for demonstration purposes.[13]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/19 13:42 by exopr.



Date: 11/27/19 13:52
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: Hillcrest

Comparatively speaking, I would say this is remarkable progress and very good news.

Cheers, Dave



Date: 11/27/19 17:43
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: co614

Dear John in White Marsh,  Be assured that Messrs. Levin & Moorman are moving forward with this and will make an announcement when they feel it appropriate. I'm 101% confident that under their leadership it will finally be done and done right. 

   Have a great Thanksgiving. Ross Rowland 



Date: 11/27/19 19:55
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: UP951West

Thank you, Ross for the positive 1361 update !!   Happy Thanksgiving to you .  --Kelly
co614 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear John in White Marsh,  Be assured that
> Messrs. Levin & Moorman are moving forward with
> this and will make an announcement when they feel
> it appropriate. I'm 101% confident that under
> their leadership it will finally be done and done
> right. 
>
>    Have a great Thanksgiving. Ross Rowland 



Date: 11/27/19 20:00
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: ctjacks

I have said this before, and I will say it again:  the silence of the owner of the 1361 - the Railroader's Memorial Museum of PA - over this supposed effort by Mr. Levin and Mr. Moorman continues to make no sense - especially considering the bold - and usually wildly inaccurate - statements they put out over the years re:  the 1361.  Until we hear an official announcement from the RRMofPA I would advise to not get too excited.   



Date: 11/27/19 21:28
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: Hillcrest

No dog in this fight, but perhaps you might gander at the link?

Cheers, Dave
 



Date: 11/27/19 21:56
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: patd3985

"If it was me, I'd jack up the stack and run a new locomotive under it!"--- D.L."Dave" Davison, 1917-1985



Date: 11/28/19 03:51
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: ALCO630

After all this time, and moving to Steamtown and back and wherever else, are all the parts even accounted for?

Posted from Android

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA



Date: 11/28/19 05:39
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: HotWater

ctjacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have said this before, and I will say it
> again:  the silence of the owner of the 1361 -
> the Railroader's Memorial Museum of PA - over this
> supposed effort by Mr. Levin and Mr. Moorman
> continues to make no sense - especially
> considering the bold - and usually wildly
> inaccurate - statements they put out over the
> years re:  the 1361.  Until we hear an official
> announcement from the RRMofPA I would advise to
> not get too excited.   

My understanding of the "agreement" between that Railroader's Memorial Museum of PA, and Mr. Levin and Mr. Moorman, is the folks at the RRMofPA are to keep their collective mouths shut!



Date: 11/28/19 06:17
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: Frisco1522

This is another example of railfans being butt-hurt because they aren't fed every detail of a project.  Forgive me, but I can't see where the "Right to Know" clause kicks in here.
I know zero about the project except that it is in very capable hands and I'm sure when the time is right, information will appear.
Until then, sit back, find another project to follow and be satisfied with what you have.
Happy Thanksgiving.



Date: 11/28/19 06:59
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: ctjacks

I would argue that given the considerable amount of government $$$ and public donations the RRMofPA has taken for this project and others that the public does have a "right to know" about what they are doing.



Date: 11/28/19 07:56
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: HotWater

ctjacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would argue that given the considerable amount
> of government $$$ and public donations the RRMofPA
> has taken for this project and others that the
> public does have a "right to know" about what they
> are doing.

To my knowledge, since those two individuals have "taken over the project", there is no longer ANY government $$$ nor public donations involved.



Date: 11/28/19 08:27
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: wcamp1472

If it’s your money...you have a right to know.
If it’s not your money, sit down and shut-up!

The previous ( mishandled) money is now down the proverbial rat-hole.
The time to have protected those investments was back when the earlier money was appropriated,
and using planned ‘milestones’ ( lists of completed stages), followed with close due-diligence.

The original money donors should have made the restoration powers-that-be provide a valid work-plan and the
financing should have had stages ( milestones) being reached, and work progress justified....before handing over
money towards the next ‘milestone’.   Giving a bunch of fools mountains of cash and expecting professional
results is the height of stupid expectations.

That money is all gone, we all bemoan the state of affairs —- Mr. Levin is managing his money on the project,
if folks like you had known how to handle the earlier rebuilding contracts, back then, we would not have been
left with a basket of K4’s ruined parts.

That bunch of clowns played with all the pieces,  the project squandered & went SNAFU....
NOW, if it’s not your money....you have no automatic right to know.  
Being curious is human, but there are no grounds to demand public reporting.

I’m pleased that the present team has chosen to save the 1361 from the scrapper’s torch ....which happened to
Dick Jensen’s GTW Pacific...lo, these many years ago.  Mishandled finances led to a court fight, the engine was sold and cut up, the court awarded the scrapper’s ( purchase) money to the owner of the real estate the loco was sitting-on...

I also, regret and condemn the treatment of Ex-CP 1278, G5, 4-6-2 ....Which suffered a boiler explosion by a 
similarly incapable steam crew on the Gettysburg RR, in the mid 1990s...

Ignorance, arrogance, nosey-ness and stupidity is a witch’s brew and makes for dangerous and costly outcomes.

Wes Camp

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/19 08:30 by wcamp1472.



Date: 12/01/19 14:15
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: puddlejumper

FWIW I think it important to mention that RRMofPA is not even involved in the project and never has been caretaker of 1361. The Altoona Railroader's Memorial Museum, not RRMofPA, is the entity that should be credited for 1361's care.

Dave

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/19 14:19 by puddlejumper.



Date: 12/01/19 16:02
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: wcamp1472

Over a large fleet of thousands of locos , the use of the Belpaire firebox makes sense.
They are way less expensive, per boiler.  But there are no thermal-theory advantages to the use of the Belpaire.

if you have an expensive fleet to maintain, Belpaires make sense... under 50 locos....use the conventional construction.

In today's wotrld, there is lillle reason to spend a lot of money replicating a firebox design of limited increased
thermal-advantage.  

The only measurable benefit is that there may be a few more superheater flues that could be squeezed into the
upper rows; but, that’s about it..

Don’t fret if the outward appearance of the Belpaire firebox covers a more conventional design of firebox 
stays and supports is utilized.

FWIW...

W.



Date: 12/01/19 20:15
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: wabash2800

Wes:

If you are saying the K-4 won't have the same style of firebox/boiler, it won't look Pennsy...

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com

wcamp1472 Wrote:
----
> Don’t fret if the outward appearance of the
> Belpaire firebox covers a more conventional design
> of firebox > stays and supports is utilized.
>



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/19 20:15 by wabash2800.



Date: 12/01/19 20:49
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: OHCR1551

Jacketing still Pennsy-looking, I hope? It can cover anything.

Rebecca Morgan
Jacobsburg, OH



Date: 12/02/19 02:47
Re: Pennsylvania Railroad K-4 1361
Author: wcamp1472

Re: Wabash2800... above

What about my description of the original, Belpaire-look of the new firebox was confusing?
The only way you would would see the new wagon-top firebox, is from inside the firebox...

Sorry for the confusion.

W.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/19 03:22 by wcamp1472.



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