Steam & Excursion > Various steam questions

I recently decided to become a UPHS member upon seeing that the latest edition of the streamlined was going to be about the 4000s and I recently got the magazine and have read it already (great articles guys!). There's a few questions I have after reading it. Thanks in advance to the steam gurus for the answers, you guys have been great for passing on your knowledge to a knowledge hungry young guy. 

- There's a section talking about various failures the 4000s had including numerous drawbar failures. Knowing that the 4000s had two drawbars I noticed the consists were set out on a siding and the offending locomotive ran light back to the nearest terminal. Was it UP policy to do this or was it an abundance of caution from the operating crew?

- another failure was 4009 was reported to have a "cylinder plug out", what is this referring to?

- no 4000 "threw right no 7 driver tire". Surely this wasn't a common occurrence and how would this ever happen? It's cracked maybe?

Side note: I find it interesting that they did handle passenger operations infrequently, there was an instance of one being hand fired (by 3 guys) and they did run somewhat infrequently to Denver and Pocatello. Again, great article UPHS, I enjoyed reading info about these locomotives that you wouldn't find anywhere on the internet. 

I knew an engineer on the 5th District, Cheyenne to Rawlins, who told me of a story where when eastbound to Laramie on a 4000 they had a stoker screw break a keeper pin and quit working. So he hand fired the locomotive into the siding at Hanna. They uncoupled from the train and he hand fired the light engine on into Laramie to make it to the shop for repairs. That was engineer Dillard Hill. 
I also worked with engineers who told stories of rod failures and more.
As to the cylinder plugs, there were drain plugs inserted into threaded holes in the bottoms of the cylinders.
And throwing a tire could be to excessive wheel slip warming the tire to expand it off the driver or also possibly due to a crack in the tire.
Now set you minds on these events thnking of a tire coming off the driver and wrapping around the rod(s) or a rod coming loose off of one end and flailiing around removing everything in its path. 

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/20 17:26 by Bob3985.

Excessive wheel slip in one driver in a four coupled set is grounds for something!

Out 

callum_out Wrote:
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> Excessive wheel slip in one driver in a four
> coupled set is grounds for something!
>
> Out
I bet it would be even more unusual to throw all eight tires on a four-coupled locomotive due to excessive wheelslip....

Cheers, Dave

 

Back in about 1908 the engineer on a Wheeling & Lake Erie 2-8-0 had used way too much engine brake, overheating the locomotive's tires. All eight of the tires expanded and slipped off the driving wheels to varying degrees, with a few tires coming completely off the driving wheel centers. The engineer managed to bring his 2-8-0 to a stop without derailing, but the engine came to rest on a deck girder bridge across a river! Workmen greased the rails and the 2-8-0 was slid backward off the bridge, onto the land area where a pair of wrecking cranes safely removed the loco from the rails without further incident. Be safe.

John B. Corns  (misterwandle)

> - There's a section talking about various failures the 4000s had including numerous drawbar failures.
> Knowing that the 4000s had two drawbars...

Hello,

The drawbar failures mentioned were to various cars in the trains handled by 4000s - so it wasn't locomotive drawbars that failed.  Sorry that wasn't written clearly. 

The point of that item was that those types of failures (knuckles, drawbars, etc failing on cars) were more common in trains handled by big steam like the 4000s vs. smaller steam or diesel/turbine power, according to UP documents.  The longer and heavier trains handled by the 4000s were harder to get started on grades after stopping to take water or enter a siding, especially with damp rail or other tricky conditions.  As mentioned, they reported this occurred most often while backing, then pulling forward after "taking slack".

Take care,

Mark  

The latest issue of the Streamliner is a great read.  One part of the 4000 operations story that I thought was interesting was the mention of steam-powered trains having to pause while the car wheels cooled from brake application on long descending grades.  I was wondering if that practice was made unnecessary with the advent of diesels with dynamic brakes?  If so, it was one more advantage to chalk up to internal combustion power.

Scott Griggs
Louisville, KY

sgriggs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The latest issue of the Streamliner is a great
> read.  One part of the 4000 operations story that
> I thought was interesting was the mention of
> steam-powered trains having to pause while the car
> wheels cooled from brake application on long
> descending grades.  I was wondering if that
> practice was made unnecessary with the advent of
> diesels with dynamic brakes?

Absolutely!

 If so, it was one
> more advantage to chalk up to internal combustion
> power.

Damned right.


> Scott Griggs
> Louisville, KY