Steam & Excursion > Ancient narrow gauge photos

A few days ago, I mentioned that I'd gotten hold of a truckload of dupes purporting to be early 1970s homemade Kodachrome dpes of photos from the 1940s and 1950s.

Well, it appears that they are that old....at least the first few I pulled out.

That they are dupes is beyond question.  They're all a little soft and have high contrast, hallmarks of dupes.  Whether the originals were slides or prints, I don't know and can't tell.

Sorry that some of the images appear less than clean----I can't vouch for the originals' storage.


 

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These shots were taken by Richard Jackson or his son James.  They were offered for sale as dupe slides by Al Chione in the 1970's.

​I have these same slides in my collection. 

Specifically:

1. D&RGW 499 at Maysville Curve on the Monarch Branch.  Roccky Mountain RR Club excursion 9/25/49
2. Rio Grande Southern 461 Brown Tank 1951.
3. D&RGW 494 climbing east side of Marshall Pass. Rocky Mountain RR Club excursion 9/18/48.

   

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Here's some more of those narrow gauge dupes.First up, 499 again. Still lettered D&RGW, pulling passenger cars lettered D&RGW. Not the yellowy-orange cars I've seen photos of for the D&SNG.

Second is 489, photo processed December 1974. The engine was retired by the Rio Grande in 1970 and went to the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic. I understand some photo charters "relettered" the locos to the D&RGW name. This looks like a dupe to me (look at how soft the tree leaves are), but it is possible it was a C&TS photo freight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/20 11:22 by BobE.

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More dupes of Jackson slides by Al Chione.

499 at Silver Creek Tank, Monarch Branch 9/25/49
489 near Poncha Jct,  CO, probably returning from a run on the Monarch Branch mid-1950's.

Chione dupes are well-known (that Chione sold dupes, I mean, not the specific images).  Ever one I've seen from him had a stamp to that effect on the mount and was on Ektachrome. 

Maybe somebody duped the Chione dupes?

The concept of courtesy to Mr. Chione for posting copyrighted material seems to be lost here. I've never reposted any of my collection
of his slides BUT I did take time to contact him and ask permission. Since these are not used for protit and mostly correctly credited I'm
sure he'd allow for such. 

Out 

Is he still alive?  Haven't heard his name in ages.  Never bought any of his slides back in the day.

The slides aren't labeled.  How can an a priori claim related to posting of copyrighted materrial be made when there's no name on the slide?

BobE

He probably does not use trainorders anymore, but he was hermosa44 when he was here.  I'd have to look exactly when, but he has been a slide-buying customer of Labrador Memorabilia Sales, maybe earlier this year or late last year.

BobE.

If the slides aren't labeled then they are copies making it even worse!

Out 

I didn't make them.  They were made in the early 70s.  What it looks like to me (and this is just a SWAG), some folks (two, at least, maybe more) got together, bought Chione slide sets and made their own dupes of his dupes for the entire posse.  I ended up with one set of those homemade dupes.

As stated a couple of days ago, my attempt was to ascertain the actual vintage of the photos (I was told 40s and 50s).  ID came by posting the shots and finding out they were Chione's.

BobE

 

I don't understand why such a big issue is being made of posting the slides here.  First, Chione made dups of slides that he obtained (did he purchase them, were they gifted to him?).  He then sold dups.  Did he ask permission to sell them?  Same principle that callum_out is trying to bring up.  Second, BobE is not selling these pictures on TO, but just displaying them for the pleasure of most, not trying to make a profit from them.  If a seller does not place restrictions on a sale, then the buyer should be able to post them without having to ask for "permission."  The source of the slides has been acknowledged.  A big deal is being made for no good reason, in my humble opinion.

Steve

No big deral, many of us have had images used without our permission, becomes like the trespass law. You let someone trespass often enough
without protest or action and the path becomes a legal easement. You want to shine it on as ":so what", have at it.

Out 

I believe that it depends on how others obtained your images.  Did you sell your images to others or give them to them?  If so, did you put restrictions on what the person(s) could do with your images?  If so, then you have a right to gripe.  If not, then you left yourself open.  Now, if others obtained your images by just taking them (such as copying them without your permission), then you have every right to be pissed and let others know.  People should show the courtesy of acknowledging the photographer if not their own photo.  But a person should not have to get permission if the person who they got the photo from did not explicitly state such up front.

If you buy a painting from an artist, do you think that you should get permission from the artist before showing the painting to friends?

Steve

BobE Wrote:
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> Chione dupes are well-known (that Chione sold
> dupes, I mean, not the specific images).  Ever
> one I've seen from him had a stamp to that effect
> on the mount and was on Ektachrome. 
>
> Maybe somebody duped the Chione dupes?

Al's earlier dupes were on Kodachrome.  He later went to Ektachrome Duplicating film.  Abut half the slides I got from him are Kodachrome.  None have any kind of markings on the mount other than the slide set numbers in pencil.

These had no such markings.  A very few of the nearly 800 (50ish)  I got had one dot on top of the mount and some had two dots.  Not on top front, but top, the skinny side.


Earlk Wrote:
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> BobE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Chione dupes are well-known (that Chione sold
> > dupes, I mean, not the specific images).  Ever
> > one I've seen from him had a stamp to that
> effect
> > on the mount and was on Ektachrome. 
> >
> > Maybe somebody duped the Chione dupes?
>
> Al's earlier dupes were on Kodachrome.  He later
> went to Ektachrome Duplicating film.  Abut half
> the slides I got from him are Kodachrome.  None
> have any kind of markings on the mount other than
> the slide set numbers in pencil.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/20 05:40 by BobE.

Hello--I am Al Chione and at age 78, I am still kicking. When film went to $16.00 per roll, I finally threw in the towel. I started making dupes in 1972 and ran the last of them last year.
We produced over twenty-one million of them in that period of time. Nothing was put on any slide--I sent out a description sheet to both order from and use to label slides as the owner saw fit. 
All film was Kodak and processing was Kodak or Kodalux. Much of what I ran was standard gauge. I offered slides from various collections, later purchasing most of the collections I used.

I used Kodak 5071 Duplicating Film (Later Edupe) until they went under. Over the years I survived Kodalux (That was a BUNCH OF MORONS!!)  We had some slime balls duping our copies, and
we were able to stop some of it. The images seen here were run by me. The shot of the RGS at Brown was taken by my Dad, Dr. A.G. Chione (He passed away at age 90 in 2005.) The other slides
were all taken by my friend Rich Kindig. Someone mentioned engine number swapping and the like. These images (Other than my Dad's--Taken in July 1951--I was in the caboose.) all came from
Rocky Mountain Railroad Club Excursions from the 1940's and 1950's. As an example, the image of 499 crossing a trestle was taken above Maysville on the Monarch Branch. There are a couple of
books about RMRRC excursions for Day One to the present--This would lay it out chapter and verse for anyone interested. RMRRC never did anything to alter the status quo other than to make an 
observation drumhead which they put on the rear of their trains. Ed Haley made this drumhead up, lighted and glass-covered. There was no number switching or make believe.

The slides I have started with the Chili Line--there were eleven slides. There are a few D&RGW slides of a two engine westbound freight, 496 leading and 485 cut into the train. 

Here is something to remember. People who buy what available collections that are around at this late date have paid a lot of money for them. I have seven figures invested in mine and keep
them in a climate controlled vault situation away from my home. (A home fire or mindless vandalism could ruin a lifetime of collecting.). But those who use them without permission are in
violation of current copyright laws.

In my case, some of my collecting gene has mutated over to fifteen grandchildren. My physician told me that I never have to worry about Alzheimer's as long as I can remember all of their names.

Al Chione
 

Wow you made your duplicates?

78? That West guy is older than you!! Good to see you're still kicking and thanks for chiming in.

Out