Steam & Excursion > A Stubbed Toe In Louisville

Southern's leased Texas & Pacific 2-10-4 #610 was in Louiville, Kentucky, on August 9, 1979.

George Redmond got a shot of the locomotive between moves... and then a couple more after she stubbed her toe a few minutes later.

Whoops....

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

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Good old 610.  I had 2 encounters with it...First at the NRHS Convention in Roanoke when it was running trips along with 4501 in 1977.  Then on a trip from Louisville to Lexington, which may have been around the time of your photos.  In 1977 it also ran out of Cincinnati in extremely humid and muggy conditions....or so I was told by friends and my dad.  I was in South Africa during that time shooting 4-8-4's and other "Cooler" stuff.  While 610 was a decent puller it was a bit too much for the Southern, and your pictures kinda prove that!
NIce rememberance!
Greg

Yes, the miracles of wood blocking in times like these.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

The humidity was incredible along the Ohio near Cincinnati .  After a day of buffing we spent the night at a hermitical sealed hotel at the airport.  The AC went down about 2AM.

Bob Wilcox
Charlottesville, VA
My Flickr Shots

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Yep my dad and a couple of my buddies chased that trip to Danville.  That looks to be the Amsterdam Road Bridge south of Cincinnati.  I climbed up there many times, but the best I got was a one-way trip with ex-CPR 4-6-4 2839 on a COLD Memorial Day weekend, headed someplace without passengers, and NO DIESEL(F-units usually helped).  It was working exceptionally hard and I got an exclusive show there!!!  Memories!!!  Thanks for the photo!
Greg

A reminder why 610 had a short excursion career and B&LE 643 never made it as a main line steam engine. Pictures like this probably sit in NS and CSX HQ today. 

Tominde Wrote:
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> A reminder why 610 had a short excursion career
> and B&LE 643 never made it as a main line steam
> engine. Pictures like this probably sit in NS and
> CSX HQ today. 

Really????     I'm willing to bet that N&W #611 derailed many more times in her excursion career than #610 did in her excursion career.

It was the opinion here in Ft Worth where 610 was rebuilt, that it needed a lot more of it rebuilt than it got for the Freedom Train.   When it was done first it was barely made reliable for usage since it was time short for inclusion in the Freedom Train service ( it made it by only 2 days).  Southern did a lot to the engine to make it  more roadworthy along with correcting some errors done in Ft Worth.  Shimming  the trailing truck was one error as it  placed more weight on the pony truck burning out that bearing in Southern service.  They corrected that.

The picture of the derailed  rear driver reminds me of one fault in the design of the engine.  It would run into small curves but the problem came when backing out of such curves.  The arrangement of a drawbar from the frame to the trailing truck and then another drawbar from the rear of the trailing truck to the tender caused excessive side pressure on the trailing truck and engine when backing through tight  curves..  The more weight it pushed the more likely problems occurred.  T&P found that out in Dallas Union Terminal.. Whether or not this derailment occured because of that I don't know.  It appears the derailment was in a switch which could have had gauge problems.

"A bit to much for the Southern"?  I doubt that.  Also the engine allowed the Southern to obtain the best return on their money due to the large loads it could pull.  And they used it for right at 3 years.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/20 15:24 by tomstp.

Looks like it picked a switch to me.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

My first thought is like tomstp's. The Lima articulated trailing truck did not like backing.

-LD

LarryDoyle Wrote:
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> My first thought is like tomstp's. The Lima
> articulated trailing truck did not like backing.
>
> -LD

Except that it's still on the rail.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

I think the truck may have skewed while backing and forced the driver off the rail.

-LD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/20 17:08 by LarryDoyle.

Interesting that the Lima Truck had no capabilty to guide the
whole engine frame, and the drivers, into and thru tricky curves and 
the facing-point switches, when reversing thru intricate trackwork.

As seen here, the truck is on the rail, yet the rear driver apparently 
picked the point and wandered off the rail.

The later design Delta trucks could swing the whole boiler in a
guiding-motion thru curves and thru facing-point switches 
( while making reverse moves).

​W.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/20 17:02 by wcamp1472.

Looking again at this pictue I notice the bottom of the trailing truck.  Note it is higher from the rail next to the driver and is slanting down toward the rear truck wheel and I believe I even see the bottom of ther wheel hiding the rail so it appears the rear trailing truck wheel  derailed too.

tomstp Wrote:
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> Looking again at this pictue I notice the bottom
> of the trailing truck.  Note it is higher from
> the rail next to the driver and is slanting down
> toward the rear truck wheel and I believe I even
> see the bottom of ther wheel hiding the rail so it
> appears the rear trailing truck wheel  derailed
> too.

Optical illusion,  The rear wheel is not visible at all in the photo.  What gives the impression of seeing the wheel on the ground is a combination of shadow and spikes.  The first image is a blowup of part of the above, while the second shows the trailer was not derailed.

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

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Beautiful locomotive. My dad and I had tickets to ride behind 610 in the late 70s out of Cincinnati, but as i recall, the engine was scratched from the trip, but was replaced by another steamer.

I was a wee lad then, so my memory may not be completely accurate. Does anyone else recall what i described?

Posted from Android

This thread from about 5 years ago expains the Lima Articulated Trailing Truck and why it was a problem backing up.
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,3884580,3884652#msg-3884652

Below, I have reproduced the graphic from that post.

When backing, shoving forces pushed the rear of the truck and drawbar (at C in the lower drawing) sideways toward the viewer, skewing the truck (in a counterclockwise direction when viewed from above) forcing the attacment to the frame (at D) away from the viewer, causing derailment of the rear drivers.

-LD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/20 07:10 by LarryDoyle.

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LarryDoyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread from about 5 years ago expains the
> Lima Articulated Trailing Truck and why it was a
> problem backing up.
> https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10
> ,3884580,3884652#msg-3884652
>
> Below, I have reproduced the graphic from that
> post.
>
> When backing, shoving forces pushed the rear of
> the truck and drawbar (at C in the lower drawing)
> sideways toward the viewer, skewing the truck (in
> a counterclockwise direction when viewed from
> above) forcing the attacment to the frame (at D)
> away from the viewer, causing derailment of the
> rear drivers.
>
> -LD

Thanks for the link and for reposting the diagram Mr. Doyle. I am continually captivated by the engineering that went into steam locomotives.

As a native of “The Fort” in Indiana, I can remember watching International Harvester’s famous (?) TranStar cab-over semi tractors utilizing the local test track to prove or disprove engineering improvements. Did Lima, ALCO, Baldwin, etc, utilize a railroad version of a test track or proving ground or is this entire thread proof that “paper only engineering” had to suffice as the nature of their products were such that this wasn’t practical. Perhaps I have answered my own question. That said, any answers appreciated.

Mark V.
Yup - “The Fort” in Indiana.

Posted from iPhone

Only RR to use such a "test bed" extensively, was PRR, at the Locomotive Test Plant, Altoona, Pa.

It was a treadmil, with a million-pound capacity traction scale, and 'water-clamped disk brakes'
( under the drivers') that offered resistance.

By measuring driver RPMs and starin on the scale connected to the drawbars,
along with the hydrostatic pressure differential of the brakes, they could calculate the HP,

The water provided the clamping pressure as well as cooling the copper, spinning disks.
There were flow control valves on the brake discharge outlets to pinch-down on the disks
to increase strain on the driver wheels as they spun.

The Test Plant was used for many purposes, testing lubricants, 'front end'
( drafting arrangements), comparing firing techniques, power variations, stoke capabilities,
&  all sorts of product testing, etc.

It was demolished about 1966, I have a few photos of the test apparatus parts
that had been loaded as scrap, piled deep in gondola cars...on tracks just outside its doors ...
before the building was torn down...

Outside of the passing of & losing dear RR friends and career mentors,
it was saddest railroad event I've experienced...

There is a good description of the PRR Test Plant in Fred Westing's book: Apex of the Atlantics, Kalmbach.

Also, threre are several "Test Plant Reports"  that I've seen posted on the wwweb.
Amazingly accurate 'laboratory' reports for thousands of locos tested by that staff.

​W.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/20 12:52 by wcamp1472.

Is it me, or do the driver tires look pretty thin ?

Posted from Android