Steam & Excursion > 4014 to Sacramento in July

So that's what's posted on AP, any confirmation?

Out 

The link posted on altamont takes you to the Official UP steam Facebook page, where there is no announcement of anything. If there was, people would be going nuts. It's fun to hear speculation from people who might actually have insight, but it looks like all plans are still in the rumors phase.

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callum_out Wrote:
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> So that's what's posted on AP, any confirmation?
>
> Out 

Wonder how they would accomplish THAT with only a three man crew, and no PTC on 4014.

well they can borrow mechanical people perhaps and run with with a waiver which i beleive they had been doing

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And Ed taking time out to go to a convention in the middle of June.

Out 

Ed can take of his Denver apperance in 5 hours I imagine and still have time to get something to eat.

That might reflect his prep for the talk as well.

Out 

dan Wrote:
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> well they can borrow mechanical people perhaps

How qualified would ANY Mechanical Dept. people be, even if they would go on such a trip?

and
> run with with a waiver which i beleive they had
> been doing

No, the PTC "waiver" was for 2019. 

HotWater Wrote:
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> callum_out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So that's what's posted on AP, any
> confirmation?
> >
> > Out 
>
> Wonder how they would accomplish THAT with only a
> three man crew, and no PTC on 4014.

Which is why the UP doesn't employ the "think tank" we all know and love as "Hotwater."

do they need a waiver to be puxhed to california? The diesel doing the work has PTC..

jethat Wrote:
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> The diesel doing the work has PTC..

For PTC to be used the locomotive with it has to be the controlling locomotive in the consist. So if they put a diesel in front of the 4014 they would be legal. Pretty sure that's not how they would want to run things though. I'm not going to wade into possible waivers or other potential solutions.

callum_out Wrote:
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> So that's what's posted on AP, any confirmation?
> Out 
-----Your title might be better with a question mark, unless it is a fact, and I suggest using official UP sites for comments and questions about UP steam. Steam on.

      Wouldn't it be easier to put a couple of diesels ahead of the little leaking tea pot and be done with it ? Most people see the steam leaking out and don't know the difference anyway.

Is PTC completely incompatible with steam or is there a way to get it installed.....often wondered about that.
--j

We could make it work with a bunch of big solenoid valves!

SW-1

Yah I made that point a couple years ago and the steam "experts": said I was nuts, too complicated and it would never work. Never
mind we do similar things all the time. Oh and electronics will never work without an air conditioned cab.

Out 

jethat Wrote:

> do they need a waiver to be puxhed to california?
> The diesel doing the work has PTC..

Nah, just get authority from the dispatcher to make a shove move from Wyoming to California, initialize ptc, and select unmapped track for the routing since the dismal hogger can't see the route ahead, anyway. That should open up some exemptions and possibilities.

Some of the other mainline groups -765, 261, 4449 where working together on a solution. I don’t recall if they ever finished.

No hurry to finish on a solution when the tech is still both new, buggy, and hyper-reliant on costly third-party systems and software.

I've no doubt the PTC tech and locomotive applications will resolve themselves in the next 2-3 years – of course, whether or not there is a justification for such adaptations is another thing.

Moreover, whether or not steam operators can collectively or individually afford the exorbitant separate insurance costs, software fees, etc without dedicated host railroad support is another matter entirely.

KL
FWRHS

callum_out Wrote:
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> Yah I made that point a couple years ago and the
> steam "experts": said I was nuts, too complicated
> and it would never work. Never
> mind we do similar things all the time. Oh and
> electronics will never work without an air
> conditioned cab.
>
> Out 

Japan has had a solution for a while, but the solution isn't all technology.

Japan's ATC is the fully working version of our PTC, where the system enforces speed limits. If an engineer violates the speed limit, the system slows the train down. It's difficult to implement that on a steam locomotive, so they are allowed to run under ATS (similar technology to ours) where in red light situations, the system forces the steam locomotive to stop under penalty brake application.

Japan's steam excursions tend to run on lower frequency secondary lines where ATS is sufficient, but when they depart from major stations (Takasaki, Kumamoto, others), they briefly mingle with higher frequency trains on busier mains. I suspect there's some form of restrictions in those areas (minimum headway gaps for example) to allow steam to mingle with ATC-equipped trains?