Steam & Excursion > PRR T1 starting to take shape

Look at the size of the thing in this upcoming open house video:

Open House 2022 – The T1 Trust (prrt1steamlocomotivetrust.org)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/22 21:31 by ts1457.

Photo as per Facebook, that's an impressive boiler! 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/22 22:12 by Finderskeepers.

---

I still find this a "hard to believe" waste of money; however, I wish them all the luck in the world.  Everyone has his or her opinion and mine is that this money would be better spent on the restoration of other historic Pennsylvania Railroad Steam Locomotives.  The question is:  Where will this thing operate when it's finished?  But again, to each his own.  This was never a successful engine when the Pennsylvania Railroad had them.  To me, it's a waste of time and money.  But it's their time and their money, so good luck.
John in White Marsh, Maryland

Well this is a shocking photo while the PRR I-1sa 2-10-0 sits and rusts in Hamburg, NY not even in the PA Museum.  How do they plan to install the flues, tubes and superheaters with no smoke box door?  I guess the end sheets have been welded inside these boiler sections. Have their volunteers ever finish up on the tender they located?  Why no public notice on the giant tender?  This photo will sure make the press and be around for a while.  Maybe the eastward end of the Long Island R R will handle it. 

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look at the size of the thing in this upcoming
> open house video:
>
> Open House 2022 – The T1 Trust
> (prrt1steamlocomotivetrust.org)

Everyone so negative- this is great news. For those complaining about not restoring old rust buckets- some organizations think they have rusty gold, imagine how great it will be to have that new locomotive smell.

PlyWoody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well this is a shocking photo while the PRR I-1sa
> 2-10-0 sits and rusts in Hamburg, NY not even in
> the PA Museum.  How do they plan to install the
> flues, tubes and superheaters with no smoke box
> door?


How do you know that there is "no smokebox door"????


  I guess the end sheets have been welded
> inside these boiler sections. Have their
> volunteers ever finish up on the tender they
> located?  Why no public notice on the giant
> tender?  This photo will sure make the press and
> be around for a while.  Maybe the eastward end of
> the Long Island R R will handle it. 

I love it!!!   Dream NO SMALL DREAMS as they fail to inspire the soul. There will be pleny of places to run her when the time comes. I'm submitting my name for consideration as the engineer who gets to run her between Princeton Jct. and Trenton on the NEC when she breaks the 127.5 mph steam locomotive world speed record and returns the coveted GSC, (global steam cup) to the USA for the first time since the Brits won it in 1927. 

   Sure will be a heck of a show watching her pass the Acela 2 at track speed.

    Onward and upward.  Ross Rowland 

co614 Wrote:
>
>    Sure will be a heck of a show watching her
> pass the Acela 2 at track speed.
>
This would show all the advocates of HSR on the NEC that steam was the original HSR here. Imagine the media coverage of a race between the two. Yes us steam foamers, can dream, yes I would pay to ride on that train and would second to have Ross at the throttle. It was through my dad bringing me to ride behind 614 Chessie Steam Special from Grand Rapids to Plymouth MI that I fell in love with all things steam. Nothing could beat hanging my head out the open window, hair and face covered in cinders. Yes I'd bring my stepsons and my daughters to experience the same feeling 

Just my $0.02 and big dreams
Brian

I think the group has done a good job on their web site responding to many o the concerns raised.  See "FAQ."

B&OBill

To thoses with nothing but negative input. Take YOUR money and put it where you think it will do the most good and let others do the same with theirs. Show us what you can do with your money, show us your progress, I know some of you have, but I can see progress here also. It may not be a project that I would have chosen, but over the years I have invested in projects that I did choose to support, some to fruition others to a lesser extent. And I have read all about the failed expectations on the Pennsy and that these issues have been identified and will be addresed. If they finish it and run it will you stay home because it was a waste of money? I won't, I want to see it run.  

I think this is a good thing and wish them luck

co614 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love it!!!   Dream NO SMALL DREAMS as they
> fail to inspire the soul. There will be pleny of
> places to run her when the time comes. I'm
> submitting my name for consideration as the
> engineer who gets to run her between Princeton
> Jct. and Trenton on the NEC when she breaks the
> 127.5 mph steam locomotive world speed record and
> returns the coveted GSC, (global steam cup) to the
> USA for the first time since the Brits won it in
> 1927. 
>
>    Sure will be a heck of a show watching her
> pass the Acela 2 at track speed.


After this is done, let's do a NYC Hudson!
>     Onward and upward.  Ross Rowland 

RNP47 Wrote:
> After this is done, let's do a NYC Hudson!

Speaking as a devoted PRR fan who bleeds Brunswick Green, I say....

Oh, HELL, yeah! 
I would LOVE to see a J3a stomping across the Water Level route... and if it has a Dreyfuss shroud, bonus!

~Joe P,
Hainesville, IL

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/22 13:34 by TheApostleGreen.

Are there any New York Central Hudson or Niagara locomotives in existence?

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Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are there any New York Central Hudson or Niagara
> locomotives in existence?

No. Only 2 Mohawks remain of the NYC "large" locomotives.

As an early, and public, supporter of the T-1 project.  I am pleased to see the progress.

As to the early challenges with T-1s, the problems almost all were related to the
insistence by PRR on using the Caprotti valve gear.  

In the Caprotti sysytem, contained inside the valve-gear housing'boxes' were two Walschaert-like
reverse-links.  They were operated by the crossheads of engines.  The right crosshead position
controlled the left-side valves & timing; the left crosshead controlled the right-side vakves.

The valve gear inside the gear boxes was inadequate to the needs of
durabikity and service life.  The gearbox for the front cylinders was mounted
between and ahead of the front cylinders , under the smoke box.

The gearbox for the rear cylinders was mounted behind the cylinders, and between
the wheels of driver-set #3.  That meat having to drop the 3rd set of drivers to
make repairs in that 'gearbox.

Franklin-Type , rotary powered, Poppet 'gear to be used on this engine will be rotary-cam
driven, external from the frame ... and it will be simpler, true rotating cams, with variable width,
contoured cams for variable admission periods. 

The exhaust-valve timing always begins at the end of the power stroke,
and the exhaust cam closes before the beginning of the power-srioke.  
The exhaust-cam lobes are of simpler contour.

This simpler, and more rugged, rotary-cam pattern will drive the new,
steam-distribution poppet valves.

There are other changes that will also be incorporated, as suggested 
from the short-comings of the earlier problems.  There is no sense in
duplicating the well-known performance problems of the earlier design.

Where known, these areas will be improved and applied, as well as other
'modernizarions' ---- this will not be a true, 'museum duplicate' of the earier design,
it will be it's own variant,  with improvements to suit the current, modern-day needs.

​W.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/22 17:48 by wcamp1472.

Wes, do you think that running her on Class 6 track she has a good chance of establishing a new steam locomotive speed record ( currently 127.5 mph) ?? I'm thinking the nearly perfect Amtrak NEC straight stretch between Princeton Jct. and Trenton would be ideal??   

   I've read many times that these locomotives frequently exceeded 120 mph on the western end of the PRR main into Chicago.

    Your thoughts. Thanks, Ross Rowland 

PlyWoody Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well this is a shocking photo while the PRR I-1sa
> 2-10-0 sits and rusts in Hamburg, NY not even in
> the PA Museum.  How do they plan to install the
> flues, tubes and superheaters with no smoke box
> door?  I guess the end sheets have been welded
> inside these boiler sections. Have their
> volunteers ever finish up on the tender they
> located?  Why no public notice on the giant
> tender?  This photo will sure make the press and
> be around for a while.  Maybe the eastward end of
> the Long Island R R will handle it. 

Why does it matter that the I1 isn't at the RR Museum of PA? It looks to be in better shape up in Hamburg than the M1 and the K4 down at Strasburg do...

co614...

At this time, what follows is all hypothetical...

Probably before being allowed onto the NEC, 
The T-1 would want to be proven as a high-speed, capable perfotmer
 at the AAR test track at Pueblo, CO.

Amtrak wouldn't want to be the "initial test track" for such a 
gamble, so-early after its production.  

( In my photo-days as a railfan --- late 1960s, I'd spent several afternoons at
   Princeton Junction, and witnessed the GG1-powered "Broadway" ROAR-BY,
   at well over100...  I had wrapped my elbows over the top rail of the platform's
    safety-railing, since the Big G was on the outside-track of the the 4-track Main.
    It was a scary and an awesome thing to experience).

Pueblo, Colorado would probably be the best place to do 'high-speed' qualifications
and testing.  You'd want be able to demonstrate, away from Amtrak, that the engine
is fully capable of reliably performing at continuous triple-digit, cruising speeds

There's probably 18-to-24 months of 'shake-down' runs to be performed at
conventional tracks, and conventional speeds.  It would make sense to house
the engine on a 'friendly' host RR, where hauling 'decent-weight'  trains could
stress the boiler-design, --- as far as firebox suitability, and boiler capacities,
as well as train-handling capabilities.

Adjusting things like fine-tuning the safety valve settings, etc.  
It's not the 300-psi figure that determines the power, but, that figure may affect
the 'slipperiness', at the lower speed ranges, like when starting.  
The superheated steam is what will provide the energy needed for those
higher speeds.

Interestingly, Norm Sandley's 'air-bag' driver-springs on his "park engines' allowed
him to shift more weight onto the driving axles, by increasing that air-bag prsssure.

A T-1 fitted with airbag suspension could become a strong puller when starting,
then shift to softer pressures on the drive axkes, giving the pilot truck  and trailer trucks
greater abilty to provide stronger guidance.

So, there's a lot of testing and "proving" to complete before attempting speed records.

The next production/engineering challenge is the casting of the ONE-piece, cast steel,
"engine-bed", frame.    The development of the patterns for the steam passages and
valve porting will be a crucial challenge for the pattern makers.  In today's world of
software-designed casting-patterns, it should be a designer's fun challenge to
figure-out the pattern designs.

The next problem is finish-machining the steam-ports ( for the poppet valves) directing
the steam to the pistons and up the stack --- in the proper sequence.
I've been told that titanium is an ideal material for both the poppets and the seats.

An earlier chalkenge for loco poppet valves was finding the correct return -spring size
to ensure rapid closing of the poppets.  The problem in the 1940s was that such stiff springs
hammered the valve-seat inserts that the valves seat-against.

Lightweight Titanium is ideal for both the poppets and the seats.  
There will a lot of "in-service" testing to do, to prove-out the correct spring tension.  
Too-light a return-spring tension leads to "valve float" ( where the valve poppets
never fully-close); too-stiff a spring design leads to battered, broken valve seats.

For the Frame:
There are no existing casting forms ( molds) long enough for the T-1's frame..
Several casting factories have expressed interest in undertaking the 
casting 'challenge' for this locomotive.

​W.

 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/22 15:46 by wcamp1472.

Sure, how do you intend to get it to Pueblo? Road trailers? Sky hooks? Cuyahoga Scenic has already enlisted as one place to run
the thing and I think that would be a good choice though you won't get over 50. What I think is cool is that because of the $2.5M cost
of the frame casting they've decided to go to a fabricated frame. That should be a real interesting piece and there are ovens big
enough to stress relieve a weldment that big.

Out