Steam & Excursion > New York Central Whistle type question?

So I found this video on YouTube called "NYC Steam" uploaded by a user named Charles Witcomb that appears to have real audio, not dubbed. I've noticed on the scenes with the Hudson and Mohawks running by, it sounds like they have solenoid whistles? (Not sure if I got that term right? The kind of whistles that can't be quilled) Did the NYC employ these on their locomotives later on, or am I just imagining?

Also, is it just me or do some of the Hudson whistles sound deeper than how NYC 5 and 6 chime whistles typically tend to sound?

Just curious.....this is my first time ever hearing genuine audio of NYC steam in action.

It was common to equip latter-day steam locos with an air-operated valve in the cab
( near the engineer)  that sent MR-air to small air cylinder at the whistle's base....which would
open the steam valve to sound the whistle.
Very similar to your electrical analogy, only using an air operated relay...

When the engineer squeezed the handles on the air control valve,  the whistle sounded.
It was an ' all-or-nothing'  device and not conducive to "whistle artistry.."

In my experience the air cylinder 'operator' only opened the steam valve in the
whistle's base about 80%.... for extra loud blasts, we would pull the manual
 cord to whistle's full-open position.

in service, I've seen engineers use the air-operator equipped whistle when traversing an 
area that had multiple RR crossings, that required repeated grade-crossing whistle signals.

If you only have a 'pull-rope', your left arm gets a long work-out...yanking on that rope.
"2 longs, a short, and a L-O-N-G...

These "Air-operators" for the whistle give your arm a much-needed rest..
Therefore, these tended to be very popular in the era/areas of many grade crossings.

I've always appreciated whistles that sounded very urgent, no-nonsense,
GET OUT OF MY WAY...NOW !!!

No "steamboat whistles" for ME!


W.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/22 20:09 by wcamp1472.

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No "steamboat whistles" for ME!

As an I.C. fan, I call heresy!  LOL

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

dcoursey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious.....this is my first time ever
> hearing genuine audio of NYC steam in action.

There are genuine recordings of New York Central steam out there.  The Railroad Record Club did one, and Semaphore Records did a two-LP set of recordings by John Prophet.  The odd recording also turned up on records by Howard Fogg and Mobile Fidelity.  These can be found on eBay for one that is willing to keep an eye out for them (that's how I found them).

There is one old LP that is available as a digital download.  The sound quality isn't the best on this last one, and the recordist's narration is a little flat, but try to record these sounds now!

https://smile.amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000S9C47K?ref=sr_1_17&keywords=Sounds+Of+Steam+Locomotives&crid=WM4I6P5VF6OD&sprefix=sounds+of+steam+locomotives%2Caps%2C134&qid=1656869604&sr=8-17

Mary McPherson
Dongola, IL
Diverging Clear Productions

I like the three chime long bell "steamboat" whistle of the flat top variety myself. Just nothing like the Frisco version as used on 1522. I have one of mine loaned out for the season to the Silver Dollar City RR, and it sounds beautiful. They also have my six chime Frisco on the other engine, I'd never heard it before, and it's better than I expected, different than AT&SF or NYC.

Posted from Android

Nathan five and six-chimes common on NYC Niagaras, Mohawks, Hudsons, and more, with Viloco air actuators. Remember that these and all whistles and horns fall prey to wear over time and can produce wide variations from their intended harmonies, including screeching, distortion, altered tones, and silent bells, as is plainly audible in many recordings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/22 11:11 by kurtarmbruster.

MaryMcPherson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dcoursey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just curious.....this is my first time ever
> > hearing genuine audio of NYC steam in action.
>
> There are genuine recordings of New York Central
> steam out there.  The Railroad Record Club did
> one, and Semaphore Records did a two-LP set of
> recordings by John Prophet.  The odd recording
> also turned up on records by Howard Fogg and
> Mobile Fidelity.  These can be found on eBay for
> one that is willing to keep an eye out for them
> (that's how I found them).
>
> There is one old LP that is available as a digital
> download.  The sound quality isn't the best on
> this last one, and the recordist's narration is a
> little flat, but try to record these sounds now!
>
> https://smile.amazon.com/music/player/albums/B000S
> 9C47K?ref=sr_1_17&keywords=Sounds+Of+Steam+Locomot
> ives&crid=WM4I6P5VF6OD&sprefix=sounds+of+steam+loc
> omotives%2Caps%2C134&qid=1656869604&sr=8-17

Mary, thank you for that! I'm going to give that a listen once I get home. I didn't know John Prophet recorded anything other than PRR audio. 

wcamp1472 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was common to equip latter-day steam locos with
> an air-operated valve in the cab
> ( near the engineer)  that sent MR-air to small
> air cylinder at the whistle's
> base....which would
> open the steam valve to sound the whistle.
> Very similar to your electrical analogy, only
> using an air operated relay...
>
> When the engineer squeezed the handles on the air
> control valve,  the whistle sounded.
> It was an ' all-or-nothing'  device and not
> conducive to "whistle artistry.."
>
> In my experience the air cylinder 'operator' only
> opened the steam valve in the
> whistle's base about 80%.... for extra loud
> blasts, we would pull the manual
>  cord to whistle's full-open position.
>
> in service, I've seen engineers use the
> air-operator equipped whistle when traversing
> an 
> area that had multiple RR crossings, that required
> repeated grade-crossing whistle signals.
>
> If you only have a 'pull-rope', your left arm gets
> a long work-out...yanking on that rope.
> "2 longs, a short, and a L-O-N-G...
>
> These "Air-operators" for the whistle give your
> arm a much-needed rest..
> Therefore, these tended to be very popular in the
> era/areas of many grade crossings.
>
> I've always appreciated whistles that sounded very
> urgent, no-nonsense,
> GET OUT OF MY WAY...NOW !!!
>
> No "steamboat whistles" for ME!
>

10-4 on that one. I'm no fan of the steamboat whistles either. Sorry, Mary! 

kurtarmbruster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nathan five and six-chimes common on NYC Niagaras,
> Mohawks, Hudsons, and more, with Viloco air
> actuators. Remember that these and all whistles
> and horns fall prey to wear over time and can
> produce wide variations from their intended
> harmonies, including screeching, distortion,
> altered tones, and silent bells, as is plainly
> audible in many recordings.

I had no idea that the NYC used Nathan 5 or 6 chimes on their locomotives. 

dcoursey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kurtarmbruster Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nathan five and six-chimes common on NYC
> Niagaras,
> > Mohawks, Hudsons, and more, with Viloco air
> > actuators. Remember that these and all whistles
> > and horns fall prey to wear over time and can
> > produce wide variations from their intended
> > harmonies, including screeching, distortion,
> > altered tones, and silent bells, as is plainly
> > audible in many recordings.
>
> I had no idea that the NYC used Nathan 5 or 6
> chimes on their locomotives. 

Yes they did.  Nathans and shop cast replacement whistle bells,
All of their engines used the Viloco Pneumatic Whistle Operator as well,
meaning the whistle was on/off (no whistle artistry). Not pretty sounding.. 

Pacifics assigned to the Putnam and Harlem Divisions
as well as those on the West Shore carried Hancock 3-chimes.
The lower tones, being less raucous, drew fewer complaints from the townsfolk
whose homes were near the railroad in the bedroom communities
in the New York City commuter zone. 

I've read that the Pacifics on the Adirondack Division also carried Hancock 3-chimes.

Below is the shop pattern for the NYC 6-chime bell, the legend showing the classes of engines
and the Nathan 6-chime bell for comparison. The dimensions of the flutes are slightly different 
between the two pattern, meaning there wer probably slightly different tones generated by 
each one.

It is my understanding that the remaining Mohawk classes L1 through L3, as well as all other power 
not listed here, had 5-chime whistles, except for the aforementioned Pacifics with Hancock 3-chimes.

4915 and 4917 were K5b Pacifics that were souped up and received upside-down bathtub
streamlining for the Cleveland - Detroit "Mercury" streamliners. Later they were used on the
Jame Whitcomb Riley that ran from Cincinnatti to Chicago, via Indianapolis.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/22 13:49 by yankingeorgia.

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This is a Viloco valve with a Hancock bell, as used on Dm&Ir Yellowstones, and maybe others. The bright brass plug in the last photo is where the air line screws in. They had two "thumb valves" in the cab for the engr and fireman, to blow the whistle. These were a complicated valve compared to most, as you can see in the photos. But they were very high quality, and had steel piston rings. The red handle was not used by DM&IR, but is correct according to the drawing. They only used the air valve on these. But it displays well, (Jeff Hosford happened to have a spare and sold it to me)

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yankingeorgia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dcoursey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > kurtarmbruster Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Nathan five and six-chimes common on NYC
> > Niagaras,
> > > Mohawks, Hudsons, and more, with Viloco air
> > > actuators. Remember that these and all
> whistles
> > > and horns fall prey to wear over time and can
> > > produce wide variations from their intended
> > > harmonies, including screeching, distortion,
> > > altered tones, and silent bells, as is
> plainly
> > > audible in many recordings.
> >
> > I had no idea that the NYC used Nathan 5 or 6
> > chimes on their locomotives. 
>
> Yes they did.  Nathans and shop cast replacement
> whistle bells,
> All of their engines used the Viloco Pneumatic
> Whistle Operator as well,
> meaning the whistle was on/off (no whistle
> artistry). Not pretty sounding.. 
>
> Pacifics assigned to the Putnam and Harlem
> Divisions
> as well as those on the West Shore carried Hancock
> 3-chimes.
> The lower tones, being less raucous, drew fewer
> complaints from the townsfolk
> whose homes were near the railroad in the bedroom
> communities
> in the New York City commuter zone. 
>
> I've read that the Pacifics on the Adirondack
> Division also carried Hancock 3-chimes.
>
> Below is the shop pattern for the NYC 6-chime
> bell, the legend showing the classes of engines
> and the Nathan 6-chime bell for comparison. The
> dimensions of the flutes are slightly different 
> between the two pattern, meaning there wer
> probably slightly different tones generated by 
> each one.
>
> It is my understanding that the remaining Mohawk
> classes L1 through L3, as well as all other
> power 
> not listed here, had 5-chime whistles, except for
> the aforementioned Pacifics with Hancock
> 3-chimes.
>
> 4915 and 4917 were K5b Pacifics that were souped
> up and received upside-down bathtub
> streamlining for the Cleveland - Detroit "Mercury"
> streamliners. Later they were used on the
> Jame Whitcomb Riley that ran from Cincinnatti to
> Chicago, via Indianapolis.

Very interesting information, thank you Yank! Those slight variations definitely make a difference though, cuz you can definitely tell the difference between a Nathan 6 and a NYC 6.