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Steam & Excursion > Where are all the 4014 videos?


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Date: 08/01/22 15:37
Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: Frisco1522

I thought TO would be blowing up with Big Boy videos by now of the weekend activity. 
Is everyone mad about the twin beam headlight?   I've seen a couple of good videos on FB showing it working hard and running at speed.  Diesel wasn't working.  Shouldn't that make everyone happy?
All I see now is another GLRR video.



Date: 08/01/22 15:53
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: HotWater

Frisco1522 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought TO would be blowing up with Big Boy
> videos by now of the weekend activity. 
> Is everyone mad about the twin beam headlight?  
> I've seen a couple of good videos on FB showing it
> working hard and running at speed.  Diesel wasn't
> working.  Shouldn't that make everyone happy?
> All I see now is another GLRR video.

Don,

I've only seen one YouTube video of 4014 departing Cheyenne, without the diesel "helping". She sounded  pretty good, but according to "other posts", from then on the diesel was most of the power. I have not seen ANY videos of the northbound trip from Denver back to Cheyenne (only comments about the 45 minuet service stop at Greeley).



Date: 08/01/22 16:54
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: bankshotone

What other new items is on the big boy? So far I've noticed the whistle, dual beam headlight, new builders plates and some other new plate to the rear of the builders plate. Something else seems different but can't put my finger on it.



Date: 08/01/22 17:54
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: up833

Sometimes there can be to much of a good thing. Look at the number of views that the CO NG posts are getting.
RB



Date: 08/01/22 17:57
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: LocoPilot750

Finally got the lubricator chain covers put on.

Posted from Android



Date: 08/01/22 18:02
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: wcamp1472

Steam locos are Draft-Powered machines....

Running at low stack exhaust velocity ( low oxygen volume) means no 
flames reach the superheater units....let alone, getting any depth 
down the flues...

Running saturated,  a 'heat' term relating to steam's temperature ( not it's moisture content),
means very high volumes of steam are needed to fill the cylinders.  And, yes, it's temperature 
is right at the condensation point....so, as steam expands, it correspondingly cools, in the piping
to the cylinders and inside the cylinders and pistons.  
You're pumping clouds of colloidal-water droplets out the stack....

Low steam temps are the result of low drafts and low amounts of oxygen through  the firebox, which 
means that a small addition of fuel turns the sky black.   Low oxygen is the principal cause
of black smoke ( regardless of engine type:  locomotive, gas engine, Diesel engines, rocket engines..)

With steam locomotives, the air flow & volume through the firebox is solely provided by the steam flow
up the stack.   The flow is totally dependent on the weight of the cars behind the tender.

The other factor is the mechanical design of the locomotive while on the drawing board.
No amount of throttle/reverser maneuvering can create draft ....draft comes from the weight 
of the train.

The result is the need to drag along 3-tenders of water.

The low draft of combustion-air means that only low quantities of fuel can be added.
Black-smoking, with added oil fuel,  coats the interior boiler tubes and 'units' with insulating
build-up of black, unburned,  carbon.  The fireman has very little ability to increase
firebox temperatures, as it's the air flow that brings-in the needed oxygen.  

if the engineer widens on the throttle, he'll soon be speeding down the line above 70-per,
but still will have a low draft...

What raises the firebox's temperature  is OXYGEN....not 'fuel'.
You want more oxygen?    Get more WEIGHT to tow.

A few cars and a diesel are not gonna give you the 'heating effect' you need.

So,  you'll need 3 or more tenders-full of water --- to go slogging along...
In reality, the diesel shoving is the best solution to touring around the system.

The best solution is to use only the rear engine to be powered by steam.
So, close-off the steam to the front cylinders, remove the pistons and let the front 
engine's wheels, free-wheel.

That allows you to redesign a smaller combustion area in the firebox, increase the
relative oxygen flow, and increase firebox temps.  
You'll only need one exhaust stack.  ( close-off the lower end of the unused stack)
So it'll be essentially "4-8-4" , with low drivers. 

That's the only way to raise 4014's firebox temperatures....

Or, you can pull a hundred cars and get all the oxygen you need!
You'll be at 700+ degrees superheat, you'll drink way-less water...and 
firing 4014 will be a lazy man's dream.... Waving at the girls...

( Or, don't take the easy solution...).

W.





pause...



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/22 03:25 by wcamp1472.



Date: 08/01/22 19:22
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: agentatascadero

Given Wes' excellent discussion......I've been led to consider what size locomotive best fits that 8 car train.  This sounds perfect for a 4-6-2 to me.

AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA



Date: 08/01/22 19:24
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: wcamp1472

CORRECT!

Or, a big Hudson! ( There's several good ones of those around ..)

W.



Date: 08/01/22 20:06
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: grizzledgary

While I would still like to see 4014 in operation at some point its now more of an "if I'm ever in the area at the right time" type of thing as opposed to something I used to feel I HAD to make happen. The UP steam operations have change so much that for me the experience the events offer haven't been worth the resources required to participate so my interest level is greatly reduced. I realize I'm likely in the minority as the general public and rail fans still gather track side to see 4014 roll by and the limited tickets available seem to have no problem selling well enough to allow occasional excursions to continue

I'm more about the ride so in my case videos serve mostly to let me re-visit past trips or sample operations I've missed or haven't yet been to. Maybe some folks have decided another video of 4014 won't be all that different from those they have already seen? I know I'm far more interested in whats happening with RRHMA in Silvis IL, Western Maryland Scenic, Reading Blue Mountain & Northern, Indiana Rail Experience and the East Broad Top.  



Date: 08/01/22 20:19
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: Narniaman

How much can the stack steam blower increase the draft?



Date: 08/01/22 20:54
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: radar

Put the diesel into dynamic braking.  That should add some work load for the 4014.



Date: 08/01/22 21:18
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: Drknow

radar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Put the diesel into dynamic braking.  That should
> add some work load for the 4014.

They were supposedly doing that somewhat on the big tour a few years ago.

Regards

Posted from iPhone



Date: 08/01/22 23:22
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: callum_out

They are not doing the locomotive any good with this "careful" operation. If they think this wille extend the life maybe
they should have a sit down with Wes. I'm wondering what the superheater "turnarounds" look like, maybe like the
coal the locomotive used to burn.

Out 



Date: 08/02/22 02:34
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: dpudave

Wes, Am I right in assuming 3985 faced these same issues? Thanks as always. d



Date: 08/02/22 04:07
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: wcamp1472

Challengers, and similar engines, DO face the same loading issues.
I seem to remember that 3985 did not have diesel helpers for a lot of its trips.
The Challenger's overall design is better suited to light-drafting situations.

Big Boys were designed to pull long trains up and over the Continental Divide.
Thats 60-some miles of steady, uphill grades.  In Kratville's book about Big Boys
 there's a fold-out (4 pages?) of that track profile...  That pretty much shows the 
fight that they faced...

That's why the boiler is designed to produce great quantities of superheated steam.
I'd expect that on the stiffer parts of that grade, that the cut-off of the valve gear is 
40% to 50%... That's a LOT of steam demand and I'd wager that track speeds would be 
30-MPH range.

That rate would burn a LOT of coal fuel.  Alco designed-in a larger total grate area, which 
was designed to be reduced by movinig the front refractory brick 'wall' to close-off the
total available grate area --- once the 'grade-testing' trips revealed the actual drafting
requirements and volumes that can reasonably produce the necessary firebox drafting rates.
Even Alco had to guess about 4000s actual needs.... so, they gave themselves 
some wiggle-room about the grate area that they might actually need.


The 'blower' question....

In response to the live-steam drafting capacity ( the fireman-controlled  'blower'),
the draft produced is under 2% of the full-draft quantity of a "wide-open" 4000-class.
The "blower" is mostly capable of keeping the smoke out of the cab when there is
no beneficial draft from the cylinders. it's only a small pipe that provides
a small amount of steam draft.

Kratville's book has many pictures of the twin exhaust's drafting arrangements...
You need to have a great imagination of what the steam-flow ACTUALLY  
looks like when thundering uphill with a heavy train and about 30-per.
Its two virtual tornadoes roaring out the stack while under load!

Challengers, 4-6-6-4, are better suited for over-all utility over the system.
Which is why other 'roads' used copies of that design...like Clinchfield and the D&H..
They could beneficially use the Challenger's maximum power over the majority of 
their track systems.

The N&W  2-6-6-4 was, likewise, a good design ---- combining larger diameter drivers
+ a big firebox.
The smaller-drivered Y-class locos ( 2-8-8-2) were better at drag-freight speeds
while producing a lot of steam.   But, again they were designed to run in 'compound'
for their sustained pulling needs.

They're a much smaller-capacity loco, compared to a 4000-class.

W.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/22 09:37 by wcamp1472.



Date: 08/02/22 06:23
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: TractiveEffort

There are many excellent videos on the UP steam Facebook page - surprisingly well-composed.  There is also an excellent first-hand account by the 4014's fireman of his trip from Denver to Cheyenne, which addresses the topic of superheating.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/22 10:51 by TractiveEffort.



Date: 08/02/22 09:13
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: elueck

Except that all of the UP steam pages are private group pages.....



Date: 08/02/22 09:54
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: HotWater

TractiveEffort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are many excellent videos on the UP steam
> Facebook page - surprisingly well-composed. 
> There is also an excellent first-hand account by
> the 4014's fireman of his trip from Demver to
> Cheyenne, which addresses the topic of
> superheating.....

I wonder which "fireman" that would be?



Date: 08/02/22 10:12
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: Hillcrest

It was an essay by Austin Barker.

Cheers, Dave



Date: 08/02/22 10:18
Re: Where are all the 4014 videos?
Author: bankshotone

To those interested, here is a copy and paste.
Credit to Austin Barker, shared by Darrel Cason





Austin BarkerOfficial Union Pacific Steam Club 🚂
10h ·
UP 4014
Starting out of Greeley, you follow the engineer’s ever increasing throttle position with the firing valve. Cylinder cocks open to clear the water, the blower is still on. Every tug on the throttle means an increase in steam demand that must be met with more heat. Cylinder cocks closed and off goes the blower. You can still distinguish the individual exhaust pulses. A touch more atomizer as the fuel increases. A 4000 has nearly 9000 gallons of water in the boiler at half a glass, this means you have a little time to make some fire adjustments before you put the injector on. As the train accelerates you reach for the exhaust steam injector handle. Prime for two, three, four.. the cold water turbine pressure gauge bounces and hits 28 psi. Pull the handle the rest of the way out, the injector starts. Adjusting handle at 1.5 to start. More throttle and more fire. Train continues to accelerate. Exhaust steam injector changes over, a little splash of water at the over flow. Boiler pressure starts to inch up, more water in by turning the adjusting handle, at 2 now. Engineer hooks up the reverser a little as speed reaches 30+. Running just over half a glass of water, time to work on getting things dialed in. Fine adjustments on fire and water. The continuous blowdowns are now on which means a little more fire and water. The once distinct exhaust pulses have turned into a deafening roar and the whistle screams with every grade crossing. Your eyes dart between the boiler pressure gauge, the water gauge glass and the track ahead. Now moving at 40, things are happening a little faster. Fine adjustments on fuel to keep the needle as close to 300 as possible. Working up grade means that you are mindful to keep the water near the top tri-cock. Everything dialed in just in time for a slow order. Throttle closed a little, some air is set, firing valve trimmed back, injector to follow. Water in the gauge glass goes down slightly as the train decelerates. Injector stays on at 1.5 and another throttle reduction. Firing valve trimmed back again to keep the safety from lifting. Train slows to near 25 and air is released. We make it through the slow order and then right back into it. Throttle up, more fuel, more water. The defining roar continues for the next 35 minutes as we head towards Cheyenne. Things all dialed in, the engine will sit right at 300, haze at the stack and water boiling off to the tune of 80,000+ pounds per hour. Still not at capacity the locomotive is doing what it was designed to do and doing it well. Time to get a drink of water and enjoy the scenery. Glancing out the window, lubricators working away, hints of smoke coming off the cylinder jackets as the superheat has been over 700 degrees for miles. What a way to spend an afternoon, blasting up grade in a 4000.



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